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Mon 4 Dec, 2006 04:32 pm
Here's the deal! My wife and I bought our dream home about 2 years ago. It has a 403 ft. deep well with a good pump and a nice Signature 2000 fiberglass pressure tank. Problem is our well has acidic water and fluctuating iron levels. We had a Rainsoft softener installed that we used in our old house. The softener couldn't begin to touch the iron levels at certain times. We contacted our local Rainsoft dealer and they installed a chemical feed system. It involves the use of a 120 gallon retention tank, 2 pumps (1 for alum and 1 for caustic/bleach), a Hysulex filter, our softener and finally a whole house filter. Well, we've had our problems with iron and the system took care of it with changes in the alum. Worked good for the most part. Recently I drained the water out of the pressure tank and noticed it had no air in it whatsoever. I know a waterlogged tank is hard on the well pump. The switch was set at 30/50. I set the pressure switch a little higher to 40/60. I know I'll have a little less volume, but I think our treatment system needs slightly higher pressure to stay cleaned out. I put the proper amount of air in the tank and got everything going again. Everything was OK for weeks then I noticed a slow drop in water volume. Not pressure, it's fine for the first minute or so then drops as the pump has to kick back on. I have come to 2 conclusions for this problem. One is that we had gotten used to the pressure and volume we had for almost 2 years because there was no air in the pressure tank and that gives us much more volume. Now that the pressure tank has the proper amount of air/water we're just experiencing what it's like to have well water. The high volume followed by a drop for the pump having to kick on again and again. We did have city water and of course had constant pressure and no iron. I do miss that. The second conclusion is that maybe the increased pressure has broken loose iron deposits that may have built up in the Hysulex unit or the softener. The reason that's a possibility is because every now and then we'll be using the water and it'll be really clear, then we'll have a fluctuation in pressure and the water will become orange. It doesn't happen often, but is annoying. After a few minutes of spitting and sputtering it will be really clear again. We have had problems with huge amounts of iron after we have several inches of rain at once or we use alot of water in a day or 2. We were told that as the water table rises and drops naturally our water in the well changes and possibly is hitting iron pockets at deeper depths. It all makes sense, but can be really frustrating. I know alot about water treatment, but haven't done much to the units we have. Is there anything in the softener or Hysulex that could be blocked or an internal valve that might be stuck open or closed? Thanks for any info. Later!!
Shadow745
It sounds like a pressure tank/switch problem. Bypass the carbon filter and softener and see if pressure/volume increases.
You never want the pressure to drop below 40 psi. A low of 45 psi is ideal.
Also, a dedicated backwashing acid neutralizer installed ahead of the chlorine injection point would help the balance of your system work as advertised.
This filter would replace the alum injection.
How often do you flush water from the bottom of the 120 gallon retention tank?
What does it look like?
HTH ~
Thanks for the reply. Well, when we first had the system installed our gauge was reading 50/70, but I recently replaced it and it was actually 30/50, so I raised it to 40/60, which is as high as it will allow. I'm thinking about putting in a 40/60 switch and adjusting it higher. We don't have a very large pressure tank, so I know our volume will suck. A new tank isn't financially possible right now. Our Rainsoft guy did tell us they recommend raising the pressure, but when the system was installed the guy never bothered increasing it. For the most part the system works great. The iron is eliminated, the PH is neutralized and the water is disinfected. The only problem is that I have to adjust it manually because the iron fluctuates depending on rain. I know some iron bypasses the retention when it's say 15-20 ppm or possibly even more. Then I'm sure it gets lodged in the media of the Hysulex and softener. Sometimes I do find chunks in the wholehouse filter (which is the last place the water passes before entering the house) that must've broken up in the two units and passed through. I flush the retention tank every 2-3 days. If we're having a dry spell and I can back off on the alum I might flush it every 4-5 days. If the iron is really heavy it might be done once daily. The water is always reddish-brown when flushing the tank, which gradually turns clear within a minute or 2.
For the 1.5 years before I changed the pressure everything was fine. Once I found out the pressure tank was waterlogged I went up on the pressure and added the proper amount of air. I knew it was probably the pressure increase that was flushing chunks out of the system and probably causing partial clogs. Like I said before, sometimes the water will be running fine and crystal clear and then suddenly spit and sputter, change color to a light orange, then clear up and return to normal.
Thanks so much for the info and anymore thoughts would be appreciated. I had given a thought to maybe something in the softener (which is 9 years old) being stuck open or closed, but it's been regenerating fine, so I dropped that idea. One more reason I think we need more pressure is that the well head and pressure tank are paired together and are at least 25 yards away from the treatment system, which is under the house. There's quite a bit od pressure drop in that distance. Thanks again.
Shadow745
Something is wrong if you are getting build up and chunks of iron.
I still suggest a 10 x 54 acid neutralizer installed after the pressure tank and before everything else.
Neutralizers double as excellent dirt, sediment and iron filters. Set this tank to backwash every single day.
The Hysulex / GAC filter needs to be rebed every 24 months and should be set to back wash every third day.
HTH ~
Thanks again for a reply. The Hysulex is set to backwash every other night. Rainsoft told me it could be 5 years or more before we have to have a rebed done on it. I picked up a 40/60 switch and will install it soon. I'm going to set it at 45/65. I don't want to go any higher because our pressure tank isn't huge. I flushed the retention tank earlier and the usual iron deposits came out. A little while later while using water in the kitchen the water slowed down quite a bit, then started running orange for a few minutes and then picked up pressure and was clear again. To sum it all up, I think having low pressure (30/50) for 1.5 years and no air in the pressure tank to help with pressure when the tank ran low I think iron was slowly building up. Now that the pressure is high and the volume/air is right in the pressure tank, iron deposits may have broken loose. The only problem is that all of the equipment was installed with PEX and most can't be taken apart without alot of repair work. I'm hoping that over time if will flush itself out. I'm positive that the problem is with the treatment system. There is a faucet between the well and house and it has tons of pressure and volume. Earlier while washing clothes I went outside and watched the pressure gauge at the pressure tank while the washer was filling. I know washers use alot of water and it was taking roughly 5 minutes for the pressure to drop only 10 lbs. I thought before that maybe the well pump and pressure tank were having a hard time keeping up with high water demand, but it hardly kicks on for most tasks. The pressure isn't dropping low enough often. That leads me to believe that it is definitely in the system. With iron building up like it does in the retention tank I'm also thinking it may be clogging the lines running in/out of it. BTW, how much does an acid neutralizer cost on average? Will it really help that much? We have roughly $8,000 invested in our current system and also have to buy chemicals every 4months or so. Again, thanks for your help.
One more thing. Are there any moving parts in the Hysulex or Rainsoft softener that could be stuck open or closed and causing a bypass of some sorts? When we first use the water we have killer pressure, then it slowly fades. Maybe we also were spoiled by the constant pressure in the city.
Shadow745
"Problem is our well has acidic water and fluctuating iron levels"
You have problem water. The first think to address with problem water is the Ph. Your water is acidic. The problem is a low Ph.
You need an acid neutralizer. For whatever reason RainSoft did not sell you one. This was a huge mistake and is the root of your growing problems
An acid neutralizer can run $1800.00. I install them for less.
I service over 1000 acid neutralizers and add them to existing systems that need them.
Why was your acidic water not addressed?
The industry standard for rebedding carbon filters used in a chlorination, retention, dechlorination system is 24 months.
I'm thinking your carbon filter is fouled (packed with dirt, clay & sediment) and there is a good chance the resin in your softener is also fouled or soon will be.
I wish you lived in my service area, I could show you what's going on.
Our acidicity problem was addressed. I mentioned in my first post about the use of caustic. Our Rainsoft salesman offered us 2 different scenarios. The first was the use of an iron filter and an acid neutralizer. The second was the use of chem feed pumps (which I'm very familiar with) with the use of alum for the iron and caustic for the acidic water and bleach for disinfection. Our iron fluctuates, but the PH is stable. I use approximately 18 oz. of food grade caustic per 15 gallons of water in the injection tank. That will last 1 week with the pump running at 80%. The use of bleach stays the same each week. The only thing that changes is the food grade alum, which I change according to iron levels in the water. I know there are systems available that monitor the water and make adjustments accordingly, but from experience I know they're expensive and time-consuming to get adjusted, so I do it manually. I recently bypassed both the Hysulex and softener. The water volume did improve slightly, but not as much as I expected. One thing I'm really starting to look at is the volume of our well and pressure tank. Our well is 403 ft.deep and yields 2 GPM. I'm going to contact the company that installed the pump, tank, etc. and find out what items were installed and see if something with more capacity might be in order. Since we lived without any air in the pressure tank for 1.5 years, maybe having the tank setup properly now is normal and what we'll have to live with. Thanks for the info. Later!
Shadow745
shadow745 wrote:Our acidicity problem was addressed. I mentioned in my first post about the use of caustic.
Understood, but my point is that a backwashing Acid Neutralizer filter is the best way to address your problem water.
Pumped caustic is inefficient at best.
Good luck
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