A Framed Dilemma using FrontPage 2002 and Blogger

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I am designing a multi-paged website using a FrontPage 2002 theme and things are going along smoothly until I come to this page that is supposed to contain a blog. I created the blog over on blogger.com and have tried to import it into the web but it doesn't update the web each time a new blog entry is posted and published. Yes, the blogger settings are correct to have it ftp'd over to the new web domain.

As a solution, I tried using a 3-part framed page and it worked great. The page refreshes each time it is linked as part of the page. The problem is that the frames continue when someone navigates to another page within the web. I've tried all I can think of to do but can't manage to make it break out of the frames and display the other pages as intended. Any suggestions? I really do not want to use frames on the other pages so that is not a solution.

I also tried using InLine Frames and that too would be a great solution and would eliminate the problem of frames leaking out to other pages. However, the content of the InLine Frame does not refresh each time the page is drawn. Any suggestions for that?

I was thinking some kind of macro or script might work to force it to refresh in the InLine frame, but don't know enough about that to give it a try.

What I'd like it to do is each time the Journal Page is accessed, it should refresh the content from the sub-journal.html page that is ftp'd from blogger.com

An easy solution would be to just use the sub-journal.html page as the Journal Page but it doesn't contain any of the pretty theme items and graphics I've added.

Is there any solution to this problem?

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Re: A Framed Dilemma using FrontPage 2002 and Blogger
I will answer them one at a time:

Butrflynet wrote:

I've tried all I can think of to do but can't manage to make it break out of the frames and display the other pages as intended. Any suggestions? I really do not want to use frames on the other pages so that is not a solution.

Use target="_top" in any links you want to break the frames.

Like this:

Code:<a href="http://www.able2know.com" target="_top">linktext</a>

If you want ALL the page links to use the whole page use this

Code:<base target="_top">

in between the

Code:

<head>

and

</head>

Tags

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You can also add a small javascript snippet to the pages you don't want in frames. They will break out of frames upon loading:

Code:

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">

<!-- Begin

if (window != top) top.location.href = location.href;

// End -->

</SCRIPT>

The code is saying "if the page is not 'top' (the granddaddy frame) then load this page at the top").

It's a small fast script.

It can be placed in the head or body of your html document.

The higher it is the better as it will speed the loading time.

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Re: A Framed Dilemma using FrontPage 2002 and Blogger

Butrflynet wrote:

However, the content of the InLine Frame does not refresh each time the page is drawn. Any suggestions for that?

It should, what exactly do you mean. I think I am not getting what you are asking (because in line frames reload when the parent frame does).

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Re: A Framed Dilemma using FrontPage 2002 and Blogger

Butrflynet wrote:

I was thinking some kind of macro or script might work to force it to refresh in the InLine frame, but don't know enough about that to give it a try.

If you explain what exactly you want I am fairly certain I can give it to ya.

Butrflynet wrote:

What I'd like it to do is each time the Journal Page is accessed, it should refresh the content from the sub-journal.html page that is ftp'd from blogger.com

It should be automatic.

Butrflynet wrote:

An easy solution would be to just use the sub-journal.html page as the Journal Page but it doesn't contain any of the pretty theme items and graphics I've added.

Is there any solution to this problem?

There are hundreds. But first tell us more.

Can you add the design to the blog page?

Can your server parse php files (if so we is gonna integrate the blog page right into the "design" page without any frames).

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:::grin::: I should of come here first to ask for help. Instead I've been trying to figure it out myself the last 4 days and searching the techneese on google. I might not have as much of my hair on the floor. Wink

Ok, to ask and answer questions re: your responses:

Some of the web pages are already getting to be on the slow side for loading so anything I can do to not put additional drain on it will help. For a graphic intensive page, which would be the better solution, the java script or individual html tags and which would be better, to use them on an individual basis per page or a global tag as you suggested with the use of base page?

I am not well-versed on current languages so don't feel competent enough to answer your question about parsing PHP files. However, here's a capture from the host's plan description. Hope you can find the answer there. If not, I'll have to write to their support tech and ask.

Quote:

100MB Disk Space Dedicated IP Address
5GB Data Transfer Server Side Includes
Domain Name Supported* CGI-BIN support + free scripts
20 Email Accounts Audio / Video streaming
1 Mailing List (30 users/list) Microsoft® Active Server Pages
Email Aliases Microsoft® FrontPage® 2002 Extensions
Unlimited Email Forwarding
Email Autoresponder Microsoft® Visual InterDev® support
1 FTP User with upload capability Redundant Internet connections
Anonymous FTP User Web Site Statistics
Access to raw web site log files Daily Back-ups
Web Log Analysis Web-Based File Manager
Web Album Account Management Console
Supported Features/Components SMTP Service

According to everything I've read on blogger.com you can not change the choice of themes they provide unless you upgrade to the Pro version and I can't afford that.

As for the Inline Frame content automatically refreshing, I tested it twice and it didn't refresh.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:

I have a themed page into which I would like to incorporate the content of a separate sub-page who's source is a file which is posted to and updated on blogger.com and then FTP'd over to my server's domain. The parent-page needs to refresh the content from the child-page each time the parent-page is loaded.

If you need to see the page to get a visual understanding of what I'm trying to describe in words, let me know and I'll send the address in PM to you. I'm not yet ready for it to be public.

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I went ahead and sent you a PM with the page address.

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Butrflynet wrote:

:::grin::: I should of come here first to ask for help. Instead I've been trying to figure it out myself the last 4 days and searching the techneese on google. I might not have as much of my hair on the floor.

Remember that! I love these questions.

Butrflynet wrote:

Some of the web pages are already getting to be on the slow side for loading so anything I can do to not put additional drain on it will help. For a graphic intensive page, which would be the better solution, the java script or individual html tags and which would be better, to use them on an individual basis per page or a global tag as you suggested with the use of base page?

First of all the javascript snippet is not a factor with page loading at all. That amount of text is so small an amount of data that it's impossible for you to tell the difference.

The speed factor i mention has to do with when it starts, not howmuch it adds to page loading.

Think of it this way. The browser loads the page in a similar order to how you read it.

So you ahve:

<HEAD>
head stuff gets loaded before any body stuff
</HEAD>
<BODY>
this is loaded next
then this
then this
here the script is loaded
it executes and determines that the page needs to reload to break the frames.

That means everything above it was a waste of time!

I'd put it right after the body tag.

Pro Con:

Javascript

Pro :: never worry about the pages loading in your frames (or being framed by others), it won't affect page loading time significantly.

Con :: Some people turn off javascript.

target="_top"

Pro :: you get to determine which links open where. You can target frames, you can open the links in new windows...

Con :: You have to add it to each link that you want to be a frame buster.

base target

Pro :: no need to target individual links

Con :: less precise, you might want to mix the targets on one page.

Butrflynet wrote:

I am not well-versed on current languages so don't feel competent enough to answer your question about parsing PHP files. However, here's a capture from the host's plan description. Hope you can find the answer there. If not, I'll have to write to their support tech and ask.

The specs didn't mention PHP and it DID mention ASP. Servers with ASP rarely use PHP as well.

Here's some unsolicited advice.

ASP is a good languages for businesses taht can waste money on Microsoft.

Use a linux server.

I dunno what you are paying but for $7 a month you can get a host that is 5 times better than that one (5 times more space, 5 times more bandwith).

Butrflynet wrote:

According to everything I've read on blogger.com you can not change the choice of themes they provide unless you upgrade to the Pro version and I can't afford that.

I have never blogged so I don't know blogger. So I'll have to take your word for this.

Butrflynet wrote:

As for the Inline Frame content automatically refreshing, I tested it twice and it didn't refresh.

Here is what I am trying to accomplish:

I have a themed page into which I would like to incorporate the content of a separate sub-page who's source is a file which is posted to and updated on blogger.com and then FTP'd over to my server's domain. The parent-page needs to refresh the content from the child-page each time the parent-page is loaded.

That is what should happen. I suspect that you are either caching the page or that blogger is not FTPing the page very quickly and you are seeing that lag.

Butrflynet wrote:

If you need to see the page to get a visual understanding of what I'm trying to describe in words, let me know and I'll send the address in PM to you. I'm not yet ready for it to be public.

Please do.

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I suspected it might be cache or slow FTP too. I'll make a new blogger post and FTP it over. I'll immediately clear cache to test it again. That will eliminate one of the possibilities. Either stored cache or slow FTP.

Is there a better way to do this whole thing without using InLine frames? Are InLine frames generic to most common browser types or only IE?

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In line frames are a stardard tag but some browsers were slow to pick them up.

Netscape 4 doesn't support it for e.g.

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Must be a slow FTP from blogger.com. I am clearing cache, history and cookies and nothing is refreshed.

Considering the volume of active blogs over there, it is understandable, I guess. ::smirk::

Ok, so we know InLine frames work, they are just dependent on the speed of the FTP'd source.

Learned a lot from you with this dilemma. Thanks Craven.

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Ok, I did the test and it still doesn't show up in the refreshed page when I use IE. I loaded up Netscape and the update shows. So it must be IE that is storing cache and not clearing it even after going into preferences and clearing cookies, history and deleting temp files.

I'm not sure what settings to change in IE. I already have it set to clear cache and temp files each time IE is closed and I have it set to automatically check for updates to stored pages. Is there some other setting I've missed?

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Did you ask IE to make the page available offline?

You could use a no cache meta tag but you might not be able to add that to your blog page.

I had a peek at the code, did you want butrflynet.html to be in the iframe? Because I remember you telling me a different file in your PM.

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butrflynet.html is the name of the file the inline frame on the other file uses as the source for the content in the inline frame. It is the file that gets updated and FTP'd over to my domain on a daily basis. It's basically a glorified merge macro that merges the two documents into one (using old WordPerfect word processing lingo).

In light of our PM discussion, if you'd like to see a clean version of the template code, I can get it for you. Just ask. Smile

Where do I tell IE to make the page available offline? I looked in preferences where the settings are for removing temp files and also looked under the advanced setting tab but didn't recognize anything in the check list that might be what you refer to.

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In IE when you bookmark a page you can check a box saying "make available offline".

This meta tags works with varied results:

Code:<META http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache">

Please PM me a link to your template.

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FrontPage with Blogging
I noticed your old dilemma on blogging with frames? I've been trying for 3 days now to get a blog (in this case from Radio Userland) to appear in a frame on a frontpage page. Do you know what I could do? The blog main page from radio userland must be named "index.htm".

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Hi Dr. Welcome to A2K. Are you using FrontPage 2002?

Here's what I did.

I started with a blank new page, applied the theme, then used an InLine Frame to insert the blogger page into the new page. Blogger ftp's the updates to my blog over to my domain and then FrontPage inserts that page into another one as a special frame and it all seems to work.

Here's the FrontPage Help text on InLine frames if you need it.

Add an inline frame to a page and set its properties
In Page view, do one or both of the following:

Add an inline frame

On the Insert menu, click Inline Frame.
Set the initial page (initial page: The page that is initially displayed in a frame when a site visitor browses to a frames page containing the frame. In FrontPage, you can assign the initial page to a frame in Page view. ) of the inline frame.
How?

Do one of the following:

Select a page that is already created

Click Set Initial Page in the frame, and then select the page you want to show.

Create a new page and set it as the initial page to show in that frame

Click New Page in that frame. Microsoft FrontPage creates a new page in the frame, and the new page is automatically set as the initial page.

Set the properties of an inline frame

Select the inline frame by moving the pointer to the top border of the inline frame until it changes to a left-pointing arrow , and then click.
On the Format menu, click Properties.
Click Inline Frame Properties on the shortcut menu.
Set one or more of the following (if you don't want to use the default values):
Name Type the name of your inline frame.
Initial page You can set or change the initial page (initial page: The page that is initially displayed in a frame when a site visitor browses to a frames page containing the frame. In FrontPage, you can assign the initial page to a frame in Page view. ) of your inline frame.
Frame size Set the width or length of the frame in pixels (pixel: A single unit of measurement that your computer's display hardware uses to paint images on your screen. These units, which often appear as tiny dots, compose the pictures displayed by your screen.) or percentages.
Margins Set the margins of the frame in pixels.
Alignment Set the position for the inline frame on the page.
Scrollbars Set the scrollbars to Never appear, Always appear, or Appear if needed.
Alternate text Type the text that you want the browser to show in the event that the browser does not support frames.
Show border Select this check box if you want a border drawn around the inline frame.
Note Click the Style button (if it is available) to access other options for formatting your table (table: One or more rows of cells used to organize the layout of a page or to arrange data systematically. In FrontPage, you can place anything in a table cell, including text, graphics, and forms.) using cascading style sheets (CSS: A cascading style sheet is a document containing style information that can be referenced by multiple web pages. Styles define appearance and formatting of content on web pages and allow authors more control over how content is displayed in browsers.) as an inline style (inline style: A method of applying cascading style sheet properties and values to an element on a page, such as a table. You can use this method even if the page is not linked to an external style sheet or does not contain an embedded style sheet.).

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Blogger requires the ftp'd blog file name be <blogger user name>.html so what I did was create a new page with a different name and, using IFrames, have it display the contents of the ftp blogged file into the frames on that page.

For your situation, let's create a new page called drblogpage.html. On that page you'll define the frames and specify that it should always look for your index.html file to insert into the frames.

Before you do that though, you'll have to be sure there are no other pages in your website with the name of index.html. That is a common default name for most starting pages for websites. If another ones does exist, you'll have to rename it. Call it index1.html or something similar.

Then, back over at Radio Userland, you'll have to set up the ftp process so it sends the blog file over to where your Frontpage website is located.

This is of course, assuming that your Frontpage website is not at the same location as your Radio Userland blog. If so, we'll have to do something a little bit different.

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I have heard about Blogger before, but dunno what it is... Anyone have a link to their site?

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www.blogger.com

This link tells you what blogger is.

http://www.blogger.com/about.pyra

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