FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

Now you know when a President shows the people he must vote in a specific way, the people chooses the other way...

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The reaction by one of the leading German conservatives, Lower Saxony's Prime Minister Wulff:
"I greet the 'no' of the French people with great disappointment, but I respect the outcome."

The head of the European Socialist Party Poul Nyrup Rasmussen lamented Sunday France's rejection of the EU constitution, saying it was a "sad day" for Europe but insisting that the charter was not dead.
"This is a sad, sad day for France and a sad day for Europe too," he said in a statement.
"But rumors of the constitution's demise have been greatly exaggerated," he added. "We must not read the 'non' in France as a 'non' to Europe. This is not the last word on the European constitution.

And Chirac said in an address broadcast on national television:
"The decision of France inevitably creates a difficult context for defending our interests in Europe."

French far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen and eurosceptic Philippe de Villiers urged Chirac to step down on Sunday. Previously, Chirac had said he would not quit after the vote.
However, after the results came in, Chirac said he would make a decision on the future of his center-right government "in the coming days" after French voters overwhelmingly rejected the EU constitution. It's largely expected he will dismiss unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

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56% 'non' after more than 90% of the votes counted.

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Seems that 56% non vote poll was pretty accurate after all.

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I'm relieved for now about the "no" vote. Of course, over the decades, the French government may well re-submit similar referenda again and again and again, until the voters will make the "correct" choice. But for now, I'm happy with the outcome. May it inspire the Dutch.

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By Timothy Heritage
58 minutes ago

PARIS (Reuters) - France overwhelmingly rejected the European Union constitution on Sunday, pitching the EU into crisis and dealing a potentially fatal blow to a charter designed to make the enlarged bloc run smoothly.

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EU leaders said after Sunday's French referendum that the treaty was not dead and member states should continue the ratification process.

The heavy defeat dreaded by EU leaders could weaken France in the 25-member bloc, stall European integration and unsettle some financial markets. It also wounds President Jacques Chirac two years before presidential and parliamentary elections.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said France's rejection raised profound questions about the future of the EU.

"The French people have given a huge smack in the face to an entire system that has the nerve to tell us what to think," said nationalist French politician Philippe de Villiers, a leading opponent of the constitution.

Chirac swiftly conceded defeat in a televised address to the nation as the "No" camp celebrated a crushing victory with about 55 percent of votes to 45 percent.

Such a heavy defeat in a country that has been one of the main pillars of the EU reduced the chances of a repeat vote on the treaty, which is intended to make EU decision-making easier and requires the backing of all member states to go into force.

As a large crowd of flag-waving treaty opponents celebrated victory in Place de la Bastille in Paris, a major landmark of the 1789 French Revolution, Chirac dropped a heavy hint that he plans to remove unpopular Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin.

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I am surprised by the large margin of rejection of the treaty. Over the last few days. I believe it became evident to everyone here that the French would reject the Constitution, but I for one did not expect such a large margin for 'Non' in the voting. Evidently the main sentiments that concerned the French voters were growing in their effect over the last weeks.

There has been substantial discussion about the likely effects of French rejection on the EU as a whole, but what I am most curious about now is the effect it will have on the French. I have the impression that concerns about maintaining French social welfare systems and certain French cultural values were prominent in the motives of those who voted No. If this is true, then it indicates serious political difficulty ahead in France as the government attempts to grapple with the conflicting demands of stimulating the economy, reducing unemployment, financing the social welfare system, and meeting the competitive challenges posed by the new EU members and the global economy as well. It is difficult to stand still in the real world - one moves either ahead or back. The French will require increasing levels of exceptionalism within the EU to just maintain their present situation.

The new rules for the service sector of the EU evonomys are a likely casualty of the French vote. What effects will this have on the views and expectations of other EU members, particularly the growing economies in the East?

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I don't think that the existent rules can work with 25 member states at all.

And in France, well, not only the conservatives are weakened: the leading figures of the center-left, who supported the referendum, have lost as well.

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Thomas wrote:

I'm relieved for now about the "no" vote.

I'd liked the result in Alsace to be French one:

Strasbourg: 63% "oui", Bas-Rhin 56.06% pro constitution and even the total Alsacatian region still got 53.4% yes-votes in total :wink:

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Paris results were about the same as Strasbourg's...

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Francis wrote:

Paris results were about the same as Strasbourg's...

How often did you vote then? Laughing

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Quote:

Barroso says 'no clear alternative' to EU constitution, after French 'no' vote

PARIS (AFX) - European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso said after
France's rejection of the EU constitution that there was no "clear" alternative
to the charter.
"There is no clear alternative message to the constitution that has been
presented," Barroso told French television.
"As president of the Commission, I have to look at the big picture. With all
due respect to France which is a great founder nation, we have to look at the
whole picture, and also the messages from Germany, which ratified."
Commenting on French voters' rejection of the charter, he said: "The
majority voted against, but for what reasons? Some of those reasons are
contradictory."
"Some say Europe goes too far, others say that they want a different kind of
Europe, others still say, 'We want more of Europe, but not this Europe'."
[email protected]
ial/sst/pvh/jms
COPYRIGHT

Copyright AFX News Limited 2005. All rights reserved.

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Quote:

30.05.2005

EU Politicians React to French "Non"

Politicians from across the spectrum were quick to comment on the defeat in France of the proposed EU constitution. After a bitter campaign, opponents to the charter garnered 55 percent of the vote on Sunday.

French President Jacques Chirac, who invested much political capital in the "yes" campaign, noted in a broadcast after the polls closed that the French people had indeed spoken.

"You have rejected the European constitution by a majority," he said. "It is your sovereign decision and I take note of it. Nevertheless, our ambitions and interests are profoundly linked to Europe. France, a founding member of the union, remains, naturally, within the union."

The French rejection of the EU constitution is "a defeat for France and a defeat for Europe," French Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said Sunday after a historic referendum won by opponents of the treaty.

Her colleague, Foreign Minister Michel Barnier called the result a "real disappointment," although said those who voted "yes" should remain proud of their vote.

"It is a test for our country because, and I've said this before the referendum, it's going to be tougher and it is going to be tougher for our country to defend its interests," he said.

The vice-president of the European Commission, Jacques Barrot, said the vote reminded him of the rejection of the European Defense Community in 1954, although he added: "Once a project has been launched, you cannot abandon it."

Voices from new states

Polish foreign ministry official Pawel Swieboda called the decision a defeat for France.

"It means it is choosing the past and not the future and risks losing its natural role as a political leader in Europe," he said.

Artis Pabriks, foreign minister of another new member state, Latvia, said the vote meant EU politicians had to look closely at the signals voters were sending their way. She urged her own parliament to go ahead with their scheduled vote on Thursday and vote the constitution through.

"I am convinced that we should stick to the idea of the constitution," he said. "We can not turn back. It would be a disaster."

Germany: Setback for Europe

German politicians from across the political spectrum described the "no" in Sunday's referendum on the EU constitution in France as a step backwards and a setback for Germany's attempts to unify Europe.

"This is a setback for Germany's aim to promote the unification of Europe," said Guido Westerwelle, the leader of the opposition Free Democratic Party (FDP).

Christian Wulff, the Christian Democrat leader of the state of Lower Saxony, said he greeted the news that the French had overwhelmingly rejected the treaty "with great disappointment."

Klaus Wowereit, the mayor of Berlin and a member of Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's ruling Social Democrats, described the outcome as "a step backwards."

Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, a key ally of Chirac
and the other half of the Franco-German motor behind much of the EU integration drive, said the vote was "a setback" but did not mean the end of the road.

"The outcome of the referendum is a setback for the process of ratifying the constitution, but not its end," Schröder said.

Germany, which with France forms the key axis at the heart of the European project, last Friday became the ninth country to ratify the constitution. The treaty was overwhelmingly approved by both houses of the German parliament, but a referendum was not held.

Not all are sad

But there are voices among the opposition camp who are more than pleased with the outcome, including Phillipe de Villiers, who played a visible role in the "no" campaign in France.

"Europe has to be rebuilt. The constitution is no more," he said. "The people have said no massively. There is no more constitution."

He said France was now confronted with a major political crisis which could only be solved by the president. He advised Chirac to either resign, or to dissolve the national assembly.

According to Gerd Langguth, a political scientist at the University of Bonn in Germany, the vote in France was a vote against Jacques Chirac, but also against an EU that was going too fast for many.

"For a few years the EU will be in a crisis situation," he said. "There will be an attempt to build things up again, but France is one of the founding members of the European Union and so this "no" is a challenge that will not easily be overcome."

Dutch voters will be the next to decide on the costitution in a referendum on Wednesday.

Source

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HofT wrote:

P.P.S. before the lying flake using a fake title of nobility jumps on the one detail left unspecified in the previous post: the parliament of Spain must yet ratify the popular result (yes 77%) but they have said they will abide by the vote.

Netherlands parliament has said the same, with the proviso that turnout will be minimum 30%.

Is this a right place for a bet? Betting both FR and NL vote NO with significant majorities and voter turnout <G>

Re. The first paragraph of this quote.
If anyone is wondering why this person has adopted such a nasty attitude towards "someone using a fake title of nobility" (little old "Moi", maybe?), just go to my linked page, where my first post regarding this matter appears.
If you then follow the thread through for three or four pages, you will see where the nastiness first appears from HofT, and all because she got her facts totally wrong, and I pointed it out, without any insults, I may add.

Judge for yourself, people.....

PS I have not responded directly to her since declaring my intention of never conversing with her again...it is all in that thread. Nor have I even read her comments from that point on the thread (if indeed ther are any)...I would imagine therefore, that there is some more bile to be discovered.
Personally, I think her opening line of the above quote is quite despicable and shows her true self.

It all makes very amusing reading though....if it was me that made the "howler" in question, I would have wanted to bury it as quickly as possible.....she on the other hand, seems to want to give it as much publicity as possible.
One word sums this up in my mind, indeed it just about covers the whole thing, I would say....................STRANGE.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/about51783-0-asc-550.html

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There's an overview of the celebrations that took place across France in Le Figaro that neatly encapsulates the bewildering diversity of the coalition that brought about the "non". From the three thousand militants of the Communist Party, the League of Revolutionary Communists and the Greens who gathered at the Bastille, to the 400 partisans of Philippe de Villiers, the rightwing dissident who split off from Chirac's conservatives, who cheered "Chirac Resign, Chirac Resign". From the followers of nationalist firebrand Jean-Marie Le Pen, who sang the Marseillaise and waved with French flags, enthusing how "this is a new start for the National Front", to the hundred supporters of Henri Emmanuelli, the dissident Socialist who "was the first to dare say no", who sang along to the 1981 hymn of Mikis Theodorakis, "Socialist France, since you exist everything becomes possible, right here and now". They won - they all won. God knows what that's supposed to mean.

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HofT wrote:

Nimh - haven't the faintest concept what you're talking about; on the other thread I corrected some historical errors, thanked my host, and departed.

Will look into the thread if you think it's relevant after Memorial Day at which day I have to attend a memorial service for a friend (USMC) recently killed in Afghanistan. Obviously you have nothing important to worry about, may it ever be your case

Dont waste your time, Nimh.....I have checked the thread from the moment of her Tantrum, up until today (30th May 7.30am A2K time) and she hasnt had the grace to apologize yet.
I dont think HofT can be regarded as the "norm" for Americans though, as I have noticed in various threads, that the vast majority of them are quite honorable when it comes to apologising when the need arises, like I say, we all make mistakes.
Maybe HofT just finds it a bit difficult. Different strokes, I suppose.

Thank you for your post on this matter (earlier in this thread) Nimh, I appreciate it.

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We all have to stub our toe to a stone once to find out where it lies, my Lordship ... and then it's better to just walk on without too much fuss (tho Lord knows I'm quite bad at that myself).

I was of the impression that HofT is German, by the way, not American, but I could be wrong.

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Lord Ellpus,

I hope you will overcome your ire at Helen. She is a remarkably knowledgable and insightful poster. Like you and me, she has her quirky moments. However I suspect that much of the misunderstanding is attributable to the fact that we have only the written words, and not the facial expressions, intonations, and other elements of communication that would accompany a real conversation.

Setanta and I periodically drive each other crazy, but in spite of his rather quick temper and - how shall I say it - low threshold of indignation, I do value his knowledge, insights and ability to express them. I, of course, am above reproach, but I do tolerate Setanta's excesses and am the winner in the bargain for it.

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george, You may be the winner in your own eyes about "threshhold of indignation," but that's it, buddy.

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re nimh's post, quoting the Figaro, and what happened at the Bastille:

80% of French workers voted 'no'.

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