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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 12:36 pm
George,

I suppose, that you just left out the social systems in Austria, the UK, etc just happened because of the limit of space here and not, why they don't belong to Rumsfeld's Old Europe and thus wouldn't fir in your picture :wink:

Of course the social system in the Baltics and East Europe works better than ours .... for us (because it's cheaper).
nimh will know better.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 12:37 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I suspect the new Baltic and eastern European states in the EU have a better understanding of the new social and economic realities than do those of Rumsfeld's "old Europe".

Funny thing is - the generally accepted image is that of a "new Europe" that after 1989, having to rebuild their whole economic system from the ground back up anyway, used the chance to jumpstart straight into a model market economy, "bypassing" the anachronistic, government-oriented welfare states of Western Europe. Thats the image I had too, so I was kinda surprised when I found that while back in Holland I contributed about a third of my wages in taxes, social security payments etcetera, here [edit: in Hungary] I pay half.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 12:38 pm
French territories cast their votes on the EU constitution Saturday with the "No" campaign leading in the polls.
A survey on Friday indicated a narrowing of the majority's lead in opposing the charter, offering hope to President Jacques Chirac, who has been leading the "Yes" camp.
But a different survey showed an increase in the number of those in opposition.
The French territories voting on Saturday are French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, and Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, while mainland France will vote Sunday.


Full report by reuters
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 12:40 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I suppose, that you just left out the social systems in Austria, the UK, etc just happened because of the limit of space here and not, why they don't belong to Rumsfeld's Old Europe and thus wouldn't fir in your picture :wink:

The Blair government introduced the minimum wage in the UK - against the stern warnings of Conservatives that it would make the UK less competitive and block the employment market, boosting unemployment.

Unemployment is still pretty much at a historic low, and Labour was re-elected this year, despite Blair's personal impopularity, mainly because Britain's good economic performance.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 01:23 pm
Walter is correct I did forget Austria. Confused I omitted the UK purposefully because they have at least deregulated their labor markets and have begun to address their government pension system. I'm no expert, but I believe their problem in this area is much less than that of Germany France Austria and the rest - and it shows in recent economic performance.

Nimh, Forgive me if I missed something that should be obvious. Where do you live now?. I was only speculating in my generalizations about eastern Europe. I know a bit about things in the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland, but not much about the rest, apart from the general impression that the Solvak republic has done surprisingly well on its own. Evidently social insurance and taxes are even higher where you are now compared to the Netherlands. Where are you? I would be very interested to know your impressions of the likely adaptability and competitiveness of the new EU states in Eastern Europe & the baltics.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 01:30 pm
I moved to Hungary last month. Good point: gotta change my "location" ;-)
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 01:33 pm
why?

if thats not a personal question of course nimh
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 01:38 pm
new job!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 10:21 pm
From the BBC:

Strong divisions

The latest polls have provided mixed messages. One suggested support for the "No" campaign had fallen to 52% and another that it was up to 56%.


Parisians share their views on the EU constitution


In pictures


The campaign has reflected strong divisions between those who say the constitution will ensure France's influence at the heart of Europe and critics who argue it will undermine the country's ability to protect jobs, wages and living conditions.

Both the governing centre-right UMP party and the opposition Socialists have urged voters to support the proposed constitution.

But leading Socialist dissenters joined with Communists and union leaders in Paris on Friday to press for a "No".

The BBC's William Horsley in Paris says the debate has engaged the nation on European issues - including economic policy and immigration - in a way rarely seen before.

He says the result is awaited with both anxiety and anticipation across France and the EU.

For one day, French voters hold the immediate future of the union in their hands, he says.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 28 May, 2005 10:22 pm
From the BBC:

Strong divisions

The latest polls have provided mixed messages. One suggested support for the "No" campaign had fallen to 52% and another that it was up to 56%.


Parisians share their views on the EU constitution


The campaign has reflected strong divisions between those who say the constitution will ensure France's influence at the heart of Europe and critics who argue it will undermine the country's ability to protect jobs, wages and living conditions.

Both the governing centre-right UMP party and the opposition Socialists have urged voters to support the proposed constitution.

But leading Socialist dissenters joined with Communists and union leaders in Paris on Friday to press for a "No".

The BBC's William Horsley in Paris says the debate has engaged the nation on European issues - including economic policy and immigration - in a way rarely seen before.

He says the result is awaited with both anxiety and anticipation across France and the EU.

For one day, French voters hold the immediate future of the union in their hands, he says.

Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 12:54 am
Quote:
French vote is no laughing matter

By Tamsin Smith
BBC News, Paris


Arguments about the EU constitution have infiltrated every aspect of French life. Some families have decided to ban the topic at the dinner table as it is causing rows, not to mention indigestion.

Even French comedians who usually delight in political furore are avoiding the subject.


In the crowded Paris theatre district nestled near the unmistakable red neon lights of the Moulin Rouge is Le Teatre des Deux Anes.

It is one of the most famous stand-up comedy clubs in Paris and prides itself on its political satire.

Inside the velvet walled theatre, four comedians spend the evening poking fun at France's politics and politicians.

Jokes about the state of the economy, party allegiances and politicians' holidays are all met with laughter and applause.

But there is only an occasional veiled reference to the debate over the EU constitution that has dominated French political life recently.

Changing routines

"If we talk about it... there will be a riot in here," says comedian Florence Brunold, who is dressed as President Chirac's wife.

"We shouldn't mention the referendum even with family or with friends... it's too tough a subject.

"People come to our show to relax. We're not here to add to their problems and right now people are fed up of hearing politicians talking non-stop about the constitution."


The audience, many of whom are over 50, agree. "I really don't want to hear about it," says Yves. "I've have it up to here with the talk about this referendum."

The question of course is whether the comedians expect to adapt their routines after the referendum result.

"Of course we will have to change our scripts then," says Florence.

"Things will be very different and there will be lots of material for us when it comes to the political fallout. But we shouldn't take political positions because no-one should know if a political comedian is on the left or on the right."

French 'jokers'

Michel Guidoni is next up on stage and during his act he sings a song in the style of Valery Giscard D'Estaing the former French president who was in charge of drawing up the EU constitution.

But there is no mention of this role.

"It is ironic," grins Michel afterwards. "Lets face it... if we do vote no, everyone knows that it was France that was at the origin of this project.

"Giscard D'Estaing wrote the first words of the constitution. Now, if our people say no, we will be taken for jokers across the whole world. Actually I'm not sure whether that's funny."

Backstage after the show the comedians start discussing the constitution while they put away their costumes.

The debate soon escalates into an argument. Among the comedians there are two "Yes" voters and two supporters of the "No" camp.

Although they claim to be apolitical in their work, opinions here are as divided as throughout the rest of France.
Source
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 01:21 am
The big day is today... I gonna vote in a hour..
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 12:57 pm
Participation at 19:00 o'clock: 66,24%.

It is thaught that up to 80% might vote (69,70% was the total at the referendum re the Maastricht treaty).
First projections will be published about 22:00h, shortly after the poll stations close.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:02 pm
The NON won.

I was wrong with my prediction.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:04 pm
According to 'Ipsos' 55% NON.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:05 pm
Big deception...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:23 pm
http://aeuropean.org/images/aeuropean_logo.gif
1. a native or inhabitant of Europe
2. an individual happily living in a rich culture
but confused about their identity
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:29 pm
Quote:
BBC: France 'rejects EU constitution'
Sunday, 29 May, 2005, 20:15 GMT 21:15 UK

French voters have rejected the proposed EU constitution in Sunday's referendum, according to exit polls.
The polls give the "No" side 55% - in line with surveys published in the run-up to the vote ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:31 pm
The "NON" according to different past referendum polls:

54,5% TNS Sofres,
55% Ipsos
55,6% CSA.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 29 May, 2005 02:48 pm
This is actually the second French referendum to end with a "non": the other was at April, 27, 1969, about regionalisation and a reform of the Sénat, under de Gaulle.
0 Replies
 
 

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