24
   

FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jul, 2018 09:34 pm
@georgeob1,
Ha! It's enough your problem that you keep posting more unsubstantiated drivel. I see no reason to take your word for Machiavelli's character or intent. Once again, you are blathering on from a position of shallow, pretended expertise. Have a lousy day, boss.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2018 10:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
It seems Lash doesn't have an answer. LOL He should quit posting if he can't answer simple questions.
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
CI, I answered at length and other posters added to it.
You should quit posting if you can’t keep up.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:12 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Some people cobbled together what they thought were optimal structural components from a few different governments, tweaked it, and trotted it out as a country.

An experiment.

Maybe de Tocqueville coined the term.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:13 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I’m not sure you can cite one government, established by men, that’s not accurately described as an experiment, but I see that accuracy isn’t an interest among current participants.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:14 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

There's not a government left from classical times anywhere in the world. Indeed very few last more than about five hundred years. With that in mind they can all be considered experimental.

There have been numerous attempts to create governmental "systems" that sought to both protect the security of those governed and also perfect the workings of society from the many contradictions inherent in human nature. All have failed as a result of their own internal contradictions and, in some cases, failed attempts to change human nature (think of Lenin's "socialist man").

The 16th century Italian Philosopher, Niccolo Machiavelli, wrote an interesting work, entitled "Discourses on Livy" , an examination of the history of Rome as described by Livy, its eminent historian. He also included observations from other sources including histories of the Greek Republics. His self described goal was to determine what form of government would best ensure the long term stability of a city or republic.
He concluded that there is no ideal form of government for such purpose: all have their excesses, limitations and failings - all arising from the contradictions in human nature. His formula for the best that can be achieved is a system with build in limits on the excesses driven by competing classes of citizens, and a means for compensating for them when they occur.

The real foundation for the, so far, enduring American experiment at representative democracy, is , in my view, the checks and balances the founders deliberately put in the structure of the government. These limit the powers, both of the legislature and the Executive, and the Judiciary limits both. In our history we have already seen excesses by all three branches, but the system was able to contain them all. I have often suspected that some of the framers might have been inspired by old Niccolo.


0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:15 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Iceland, btw, has the longest running parliament in the world (since 930 AD, the Althing).

A relatively successful experiment.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 05:50 am
Well, stupid-ass countries come and go, but there aint but one great one, eh?



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 06:17 am
@layman,
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2018 08:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
A new study by Transparency International (TI) shows MEPs from the far-right ENF group drew the most income from sources other than their elected post. UKIP's Nigel Farage was also on the list.

Moonlighting in Brussels: side jobs and ethics concerns in the European Parliament
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:58 pm
The Great Experiment

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/19/opinions/americans-are-right-to-wonder-if-great-experiment-has-failed-richardson/index.html

Euphemism, used by someone other than that Lash person

Historian: Americans are right to wonder if the Great Experiment has failed
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 06:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm glad to see I'm getting under Lash's thin skin. LOL
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 07:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI , your behavior on this topic has really been beneath you.

You asked me where I heard the term—I told you.
You said I didn’t tell you.
You never acknowledged that it is a widely used term.
I was doing you a favor by showing you it is widely used, and you’re an asshole about it.

I advise you not to ask me anything else.
0 Replies
 
 

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