25
   

FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:47 am
Walter, quoting Reuters, wrote:
Under a voluntary agreement with industry, computers, stereo systems, washing machines, lights, air conditioning and boilers will all have to be designed with a focus on conserving energy.

What frequently amazes me is that most Europeans, on reading sentences like this, don't realize what they say about the concentration of monopoly power in our economy. In America, "the industry" would find it hard or impossible to enforce "a voluntary agreement" like this against its members. Someone would be quick to start up a new company that wouldn't be bound by the "voluntary" agreement, and hence offer consumers better value for their money. But in Europe, where the traditions of economic policy protect incumbents against newcomers, "the industry" has no newcomers to fear, so "voluntary agreements" with the government work. And few people realize how petrifying and frustrating this is. (Full disclosure: The author of this post works for an incumbent.)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 02:11 am
I suspect there is more than just monopoly power afoot here. Particularly in France there is also substantial direct government ownership of stock in many corporations and the associated influence on company governance and decisionmaking. Throughout Western Europe, Union participation in the two level boards of governance & oversight also yield a political element into corporate decision making. I suppose some good comes out of all of this in terms of limiting some types of abuses, however, it also invites these kind of authoritarian excesses and the stagnation that often results from them.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 04:05 am
?
What could happen to a Cittizen of a EU Country, that refuses to pay this Tax?
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 04:10 am
?
I have friends in Southern France that are only allow to work so many hours a week, that they are not allowed to have overtime. Is this true, if so why?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 04:25 am
ConstitutionalGirl wrote:
What could happen to a Cittizen of a EU Country, that refuses to pay this Tax?

That would constitute a felony, and be punished accordingly.

ConstitutionalGirl wrote:
I have friends in Southern France that are only allow to work so many hours a week, that they are not allowed to have overtime. Is this true, if so why?

Because the French legislature still believes in the "lump of labor fallacy", as debunked by David Ricardo in 1817. It assumes that there is a finite amonunt of work to be done, and that some employees, by working more, inevitably put other employees out of their job. Observing that France has more than 10% joblessness, the National Assembly of France has limited the amount of work employees are permitted to do, hoping that employers will increase hiring as a result.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 06:35 am
Adding a bit to Thomas' response.

Until the end of this March, France had had the so-called 35-hour-workweek-law ("Loi Aubry").
The 35-hour rule was proposed in 1995 by the Socialist Party to combat unemployment rates of 12.6 percent. Under a socialist government, it became compulsory in 2000, with supporters calling it a model of enlightened worker rights for modern Europe.


Overtime could (and of course can) be done in France as elsewhere: it gives the right of increasing rest time and/or possibly salary.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 04:18 pm
Has the 35 hour week achieved its intended purpose? I believe unemployment in France is still about twice what it is in America. Moreover France still imports large amounts of immigrant labor from North Africa, despite the enduring high unemployment among Frenchmen. I'm sure this is a sweet deal for many French workers (thise with jobs), but I doubt seriously it will benefit the French economy as a whole - or the French workers themselves, in the long run.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Sat 23 Apr, 2005 09:50 pm
"Wow, thanks for the info!" :wink:
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 06:39 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Has the 35 hour week achieved its intended purpose? I believe unemployment in France is still about twice what it is in America. Moreover France still imports large amounts of immigrant labor from North Africa, despite the enduring high unemployment among Frenchmen. I'm sure this is a sweet deal for many French workers (thise with jobs), but I doubt seriously it will benefit the French economy as a whole - or the French workers themselves, in the long run.

That's true -- employment in France is nice work if you can get it, but not enough people can get it. And no, the 35 hour work week is not working in France, and it hasn't worked in Germany, where our trade unions pushed them through in many sectors in th 1980s, when they were still strong. (It is now eroding here in Germany, too.)

The few things that do have a chance of reducing unemployment in France and Germany are politically impossible. The European Central Bank wouldn't pursue a more activist monetary policy even if it had any room to cut interest rates, which it doesn't. (Only our trade unions bother telling the ECB to change its ways, and everybody scorns them for their perfectly sensible requests.) Wages cannot fall because our workers won't stand it. Instead, conservative politicians of all parties here try to raise the weekly work hours without wage increases. But this has the effect of increasing the number of hours supplied as well as a decrease in the hourly wage, for a net wash (at best) in terms of jobs. The whole mess is pretty frustrating to watch.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 07:59 am
No one is free of problems. Ours main one is in public education, which on average delivers a fairly poor product. For small numbers our schools and universities are among the best anywhere, but these excellent institutions do not reach the great mass of new graduates (and those who fail to graduate). This has ominous long-term implications if we fail to correct it. Unfortunately there are also large institutional barriers to the solution to this problem here - mostly teacher's unions, educational bureaucracies, and their "professional" associations.

Some tout the government's deficit as a major problem, however, as long as the government is pursuing policies that promote (or perhaps more accurately, permit) economic growth, I believe the long-term significance of our high, but fast-declining annual deficits isn't great. Of more concern to me is the balance of payments deficit, as a measure of our net competitiveness in the world economy.

An interesting element in the European processes (at least to me) is the apparent willingness of Europeans to accept the authoritarian enactments of a remote bureauocracy on just about any aspect of their lives apart from the immediate issues of pay and working conditions. I'm sure this is, in some areas, an overstatement of the reality, however, there remains a rather large difference between Europe and America in this aspect of our governance.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 11:46 am
Springtime in Paris

In a remarkable performance in front of 83 young people in a setting designed to resemble an American townhall meeting, French President Jacques Chirac last week declared that France would "cease to exist politically" unless French voters approve the proposed European constitution in a May 29 referendum.

While the demise of France as a political force will cause few American Francophobes or British euroskeptics to shed tears, the fact that polls show that a slim majority of French voters is prepared to reject the constitution establishing the European superstate has the French political class in a collective hissy fit. A defeat on May 29 could well sideline the European project, as just one failed referendum (or one negative parliamentary vote) among the member countries is enough to sink the constitution.

Chirac's audience was not moved. For them, the defining experiences of their formative years have been high unemployment, job outsourcing, and a vague feeling of permanent economic insecurity. The test for the constitution, in the view of the students and the left generally, is whether it enshrines the "social protections" and the "acquired rights" which the French think are synonymous with Republican values under the benevolent guidance of a dirigiste state.

<snip>

That the EU constitution is perhaps the most appallingly written document of its kind in modern history apparently bothers no one in the French intellectual class. The constitution is a product of a self-selected clique of political grandees headed by former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing whose major accomplishment during his years in power was to solidify French relations with the third world by dipping into the French treasury to pay for the coronation of the odious and murderous petty tyrant, Bokassa I, then Emperor of the Central African Republic.

Napoleon Bonaparte once said that constitutions should be short and difficult to understand. At 511 pages (exactly 500 pages more than the U.S. constitution) and laden with purposefully abstruse and obfuscatory language, the constitution meets only the second of Bonaparte's criteria. One sentence, for example, commits the Union to "work for a sustainable development based on balanced economic growth with a social market economy aiming at full employment and social progress." That sentence alone contains five ambiguous terms crying out for definition, and reflects the drafters' predilection to inject doctrinal and policy preferences in a document which, like most constitutions, ought to limit itself to general goals and procedural matters. The drafters couldn't resist the temptation to load the text with the pretentious and awkward terminology drawn from current political tracts. It speaks of "conferral," "proportionality," "participatory democracy," "loyal cooperation," and "solidarity," as if their restatement in this document confers truth and universality.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8067
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 12:27 pm
Francis earlier suggested that, as the election draws near, support in France for the new constitution will grow stronger and more visible. This sounds plausible to me, though I am not close enough to the situation to have an informed opinion. I suspect that the French (and Germans and British as well) are contemplating the prospect of reduced relative influence in a much larger union. In addition, some may be put off by some features in either the new constitution or their estimate of the EU organization itself and the increasingly visible loss of local sovereignty its maturation inevitably entails..

The United States has long supported the development of the EU as a means to end the historical pattern of European conflicts. Now, with a growing gulf between prevailing world views here and in Europe, some on both sides suggest that the EU will become a permanent antipole to the United States, at least in the Western world. While some degree of that seems likely (it exists now), I don't believe the political development of the EU will necessarily make matters worse.

The EU states comprise a great variety of different economic interests and political inclinations. I believe the Franco-German axis that heretofore has so dominated the union will be much diluted in its power going forward. Moreover the different economic interests of the East and West in Europe, together with their common demographic problem will give them all some very serious issues with which to grapple in the years ahead.

For me the most important issues are (1) the political character of the new union and (2) the potential for Europe to insist that others accept it both as individual sovereign states and a sovereign union simultaneously. I would not wish to see the creation of a bureaucratic, authoritarian super-state in Europe, and I don't want the U.S. to be forced to deal simultaneously with our European friends both as a super state and as individual ones - either in our direct relations or in international bodies.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 12:45 pm
JustWonders wrote:
The drafters couldn't resist the temptation to load the text with the pretentious and awkward terminology drawn from current political tracts. It speaks of "conferral," "proportionality," "participatory democracy," "loyal cooperation," and "solidarity," as if their restatement in this document confers truth and universality.


As I stated before, it's not my intent to indulge myself in never ending discussions about one point or another.

My purpose is only to clarify the quoted comment : Drafters were numerous and coming from different European countries. They had different views about a constitution. The result is a matter of consensus. It implies that some ideas must be voluntarily vague to obtain consent. Hence the so-called "pretentious and awkward" terms.

By the way, I completely agree with your position on VGE.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 12:58 pm
After some initial doubts, I am inclined to agree with the practical benefits of an over-long and occasionally vague new constitution in the case of the EU. There has been no overthrow of an oppressive power and no revolution which touched all the members, which might make a shorter and more abstract document both a unifying factor and a practical instrument in the development of the new government. The tedious recasting of the details of previous treaties and all the rest appear to be a continuation of the incrementalism and 'progress through thousands of details' that the EU has used so advantageously so far.

My only reservation here is that this may contribute to the development of an excessively bureaucratic and authoritarian government in Europe.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:29 pm
I might agree with re your suspicion of an even greater bureaucracy - but by what exactly do you see the danger of an authoritarian government?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:36 pm
Perhaps I'm not sure of what I mean either. I don't understand enough about how the Council, Commission and Parliament really operate. So much of what is done in the name of the EU is a result of treaty, bureaucratic rule-making and formulas, that it leaves me the impression of a rather authoritarian state. Perhaps this is merely the result of the lower visibility of the democratic elements of its operation.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:45 pm
Well, it's NOT A STATE, which is most important.

Secondly, it's exactly the 'constitution', which brings the semocratic element more in front.

And the 'Council of Europe' has nothing at all (or only indirectly, since it's for all and every of the 40 something countries in Europe) to do with the European Union.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:52 pm
Four current leaders and a former European Commission president have this weekend urged French voters to adopt the new European constitution [backgrounder; full text] in a May 29 referendum, warning that rejection could have dire consequences, extending even to the "fall of Europe" as a major international player. A poll conducted Wednesday shows that 62% of French citizens now oppose the new pact. All 25 member EU nations must ratify it for it to be adopted. The new constitution was designed to streamline procedures and decision-making following the admittance of 10 new member countries last year. French opponents of the constitution are angry at their own government for certain economic and social reforms, and also disagree with the proposed constitution's vision for Europe.


[Related articles see below]
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:52 pm
Quote:
France Urged to Back EU Constitution

Apr 23

By MATTI HUUHTANEN

HELSINKI, Finland (AP) - Four European presidents on Saturday urged French voters to say "yes" to the EU Constitution, saying the treaty is a guarantor of stability for Europe.

The presidents of Finland, Austria, Portugal and Latvia, referring to the May 29 referendum in France, said the constitution was not an internal French matter but a "European problem."

"We all agree that the ratification of the European Constitution is very important," Austrian President Heinz Fischer said. "It's not good for Europe if we have problems in that field."

The appeal comes amid growing fears that France might reject the constitution, with polls showing a steady rise for a "no" vote to the charter that the 25 EU leaders, including French President Jacques Chirac, signed in October.

The new EU constitution aims to streamline procedures and decision-making after the bloc expanded last year to include 10 new members.

French rejection could be a fatal blow to Europe's struggle to craft a more politically and economically integrated club and could destabilize the euro currency used in France and 11 other EU countries. All 25 EU members must approve the constitution for it to take effect.

The latest French poll indicated that 62 percent of voters will reject the constitution - the highest figure so far. The poll, conducted Wednesday, was published Friday in the French daily Metro. No margin of error was given in the Internet poll of 1,000 people by the Market Tools agency.

Portuguese President Jorge Sampaio said ratification of the EU Constitution should continue in member states even if the 'no' camp wins in France.

"We should not stop any process in any country because of one result," Sampaio said.

The presidents spoke after two days of meetings in the Finnish capital to discuss regional affairs, the EU, its neighbors and globalization.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Apr, 2005 01:53 pm
Quote:
French referendum 'no' would mean 'fall of Europe': Prodi
Sat Apr 23


PARIS (AFP) - Former European Commission president Romano Prodi warns that a French rejection of the proposed European Union constitution in the forthcoming referendum would mean "the fall of Europe".

France votes "no" on May 29, he told the Sunday paper Journal du Dimanche, it would be far more than a case of the country being "the black sheep" of Europe, using an expression employed by French President Jacques Chirac.


"There will be no more Europe," Prodi, now leader of the Italian centre-left opposition to Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, said.


"We will go through a great period of crisis. The problem will not only be a catastrophe for France, but the fall of Europe.


"A 'no' would be catastrophic for economic and social Europe, not only political Europe" he added. "And that is the whole contradiction: everyone knows very well that there is no Europe without France, yet France does not realize the chance it has with Europe.


"It should think, because it would be very weak on its own," Prodi said.


"It is impossible for me to imagine a French 'no'. I have always thought of France as a pillar of Europe.


"The constitution is not perfect but it is the best one possible at the moment, and certainly a step in the direction of social and political integration, a step towards the model France has always defended and promoted."


A string of recent opinion polls has suggested that French voters will reject -- possibly by a large majority -- the constitution, although both major parties of the right and the chief leftwing group support a "yes" vote.
Source
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

THE BRITISH THREAD II - Discussion by jespah
The United Kingdom's bye bye to Europe - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
Sinti and Roma: History repeating - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
[B]THE RED ROSE COUNTY[/B] - Discussion by Mathos
Leaving today for Europe - Discussion by cicerone imposter
So you think you know Europe? - Discussion by nimh
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 07/17/2025 at 09:59:58