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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Francis
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 04:49 am
Each new country entering the EU enrichs itself while enriching the EU.
To do so, they must follow certain standards.
That's why EU created the ECB (central bank), which policy applies to all members.

Now, one can discuss if ECB policies are right or not.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:28 am
australia wrote:
What I can't understand though is what countries like Germany and France get out of it. The first part of the EU was okay because all the countries were on the same level. But now there are countries not on the same level, there are givers and receivers. So what do the givers get out of it? I read where Germany funds 55% of the EU. Why would they continue to fund under resourced countries if they get nothing out of it?

Apart from peace and stability (compared to the bad old days of nation-state rivalry, then ideological zealotry), there's practical advantages. Enlargement of scale facilitates trade, investment as well as opportunities for personal mobility. A German company that wants to buy a Czech factory, a Dutch farmer who wants to start again in Poland where land is cheap and ample, a Danish graduate who wants to work at a Viennese university, a Belgian transport company whose trucks don't lose any time anymore waiting at border controls (and which doesn't need to fill in endless paperwork anymore for every country they cross through), a French bank that wants to incorporate a smaller Hungarian affiliate, etc - they all benefit. The old nation-state system with its many borders, currencies and checks and permits tying both individuals and businesses down put Europe and Europeans at a distinct disadvantage compared to the US and Americans, for example.

The downside to all this is, of course, that each country also loses its national policy perogatives, and that furthermore there is a competitive race towards liberalisation, since noone wants to be left the least liberalised (and thus, the least attractive to investors). Thats had a lot to do with the current dismantling of social-democratic welfare states across the continent ...
0 Replies
 
australia
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:31 am
Am I being too cynical or might some of the poorer countries apply for the EU just to get handouts?
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nimh
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:34 am
fbaezer wrote:
And perhaps the question is. Do the Turkish immigrants root for Holland or the Czech Republic when they play against Germany?
I doubt it.

Well there was a bunch of Moroccan-Dutch brats who were celebrating when Holland was kicked out of the soccer championships by Portugal ... Very Happy
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australia
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:37 am
That would have gone down really well in holland nimh!
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nimh
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:40 am
australia wrote:
Am I being too cynical or might some of the poorer countries apply for the EU just to get handouts?

Well considering they're forced to integrate European legislation, norms and standards into their national law books - the acquis communautaire - that's of a size guaranteed to keep a country's full body of civil servants occupied for several years, just a "handout" wouldnt do the trick in terms of motivation, I don't think ... Razz

From this glossary:

Quote:
Community acquis

The Community acquis is the body of common rights and obligations which bind all the Member States together within the European Union. It is constantly evolving and comprises:

the content, principles and political objectives of the Treaties;
the legislation adopted in application of the treaties and the case law of the Court of Justice;
the declarations and resolutions adopted by the Union;
measures relating to the common foreign and security policy;
measures relating to justice and home affairs;
international agreements concluded by the Community and those concluded by the Member States between themselves in the field of the Union's activities.
Thus the Community acquis comprises not only Community law in the strict sense, but also all acts adopted under the second and third pillars of the European Union and the common objectives laid down in the Treaties. The Union has committed itself to maintaining the Community acquis in its entirety and developing it further.

Applicant countries have to accept the Community acquis before they can join the Union. Derogations from the acquis are granted only in exceptional circumstances and are limited in scope.

In preparation for the next enlargement, the applicant countries now need to transpose the acquis into their national legislation and will have to implement it from the moment of their accession.

See:

Applicant countries
Enlargement
Incorporation of the Community acquis
Pillars of the European Union
Single institutional framework
0 Replies
 
australia
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 05:44 am
It is good to have all this stuff on argument. What I need is a pocket internet, so if i am at an european dinner party, and someone asks me what my view on the european union is, or war in iraq, i will just look at my internet thingy under the table, and quote nimh word for word.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 06:17 am
nimh wrote:

The downside to all this is, of course, that each country also loses its national policy perogatives, and that furthermore there is a competitive race towards liberalisation, since noone wants to be left the least liberalised (and thus, the least attractive to investors). Thats had a lot to do with the current dismantling of social-democratic welfare states across the continent ...


Interesting point. I am generally aware of the political tensions in France, Germany, and, to a lesser extent Italy, over what to appear to me to be rather tentative government attempts to reduce social welfare entitlements. However this has not yet struck me as a "competitive race towards liberalization". (I am aware of the different meanings that 'librealization' carries in Europe and America). Is it truly competitive and moving that fast? To what extent are other Western European countries involved? Those in Central Europe? If all this is so I would regard it as a beneficial and necessary adaptation to the evolving new demographic reality - a very encouraging sign.
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 08:13 am
australia wrote:
It doesn't matter as long as they stay where they are. But Turkey is trying to relive the ottoman years by invading everywhere. It invades illegally(cyprus) and invades legally(germany). Why don't they just stay in their own country?

When Turkey plays Germany in football, all the turkish immigrants come out with turkish flags and want germany to lose. Where is the loyalty to their new country? If they love Turkey so much, then they should piss off back to Turkey and do everyone a favour.


Norman Tebbit, one of the most vile of Maggie Thatcher's cronies, used to talk about the "cricket test".

All those who supported India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies (he didn't mention Australia or NZ - I wonder why?) when England played them at cricket would not be allowed to consider themselves British.

On a theortical level, there is a point but it's racism by any other name, as far as I'm concerned. I am happy to be in a multi-cutural, multi-racial, multi-religious city within a very tolerant country.

Tebbit's "cricket test" became a laughing stock and the majority no longer has a problem when those with British passports supporting sides from the places of their families' origin.

It is sad to read your comments, which reflect an impression of Australians as one of the most bigoted "developed" populations in the world.

Out of interest, when was "White Australia" dropped as a policy by the last major party?
0 Replies
 
kitchenpete
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 08:28 am
The supply of labour to the UK is a significant advantage of the accession of new "poorer" states.

We have a slowly growing and relatively highly-educated population. There are many jobs which the British-born do not want to take. Young workers from other (now EU) countries can make up that difference and allow the economy to grow as a result.

The advantage of the EU in these instances (following from nimh's very valid post) is that the treaties between individual countries and protracted form-filling which was once required are no longer an issue.

As for movement of persons between Turkey and the rest of the EU, not all countries within the Schengen agreement are EU (e.g. Switzerland) and not all EU countries have completely removed borders (e.g. UK). I suggest that there will continue to be monitoring of movment of people between Turkey and the EU, even if they join the group.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 08:49 am
Link to EU Member States' 'transition measures'
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 12:13 pm
Last Updated: Friday, 17 December, 2004, 17:32 GMT

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Deal struck over Turkey-EU talks

Turkey's prime minister held intensive talks with EU leaders
The EU and Turkey have struck a deal over an EU demand that Turkey recognise Cyprus before membership talks begin.
The compromise agreement clears the way for Turkey to start negotiations in October next year to enter the EU.

Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, who currently holds the EU presidency, said Ankara had "accepted the hand we offered them".

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan insisted signing the protocol was not a formal recognition of Cyprus.


He said Turkey had worked hard to meet the criteria set out by the EU and that future negotiation would help to resolve many disputes.

Mr Balkenende welcomed the deal as "writing history".
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:43 pm
australia wrote:
It is good to have all this stuff on argument. What I need is a pocket internet, so if i am at an european dinner party, and someone asks me what my view on the european union is, or war in iraq, i will just look at my internet thingy under the table, and quote nimh word for word.

LOL!

Hadnt seen this just now. Cute. Razz
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:50 pm
So did they recognize Cyprus or not?



eh < living between the Turks and Greeks near the Danforth > Beth
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:53 pm
ehBeth wrote:
So did they recognize Cyprus or not?


Quote:
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that that commitment did not amount to legal recognition of the Republic of Cyprus, a position backed by Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, the EU's current chairman.

"But it is a step that can lead to progress in this field," Balkenende said.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 02:57 pm
ok - progress Rolling Eyes
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 03:01 pm
ehBeth wrote:
So did they recognize Cyprus or not?


Not exactly - they more or less said "Not yet", but that they'd seriously consider talkin' about conducting more talks about it:

Quote:
Turkish Press: EU unblocks Turkey talks with Cyprus breakthrough
12-17-2004, 19h31


BRUSSELS (AFP) - After a day of frantic haggling, European Union leaders struck a hard-fought deal securing Turkish promises on the divided island of Cyprus in return for Ankara winning the historic prize of a start to EU entry talks.

"If I think back on today and the decisions that have been taken, we have been writing history," Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, whose nation holds the EU presidency, told reporters at the close of a two-day summit.

"Turkey has accepted the hand we offered them today," he said. "Turkey has taken its European destiny in its own hands."

The accession talks will begin on October 3 next year, and last at least a decade. But, if successful, they would see the EU's sphere of power extend from the Atlantic shores of Ireland to deep into the Middle East.

It would also see Turkey, already a NATO ally, become the first predominantly Muslim nation in the European family, and take the EU's frontiers to Iran, Iraq and Syria.

Nevertheless, the accession talks will come with a series of tough conditions, including one -- that Turkey finally recognize the Greek Cypriot government -- that had threatened to derail the Brussels summit.

EU leaders warned Ankara that it could hardly realize its 40-year dream of joining the European fold if it failed to recognize Cyprus, which joined the bloc in May but remains split 30 years after Turkey invaded its northern part.

After a frantic series of closed-door talks involving Balkenende, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and other key EU leaders, the accord was finally struck.

"We did not obtain all that we wanted 100 percent", Erdogan told a news conference, "but we can say that it was a success."

"We have reached a point where Turkey is rewarded for 41 years of efforts," he said, referring to the first association agreement signed between Turkey and the EU's predecessor, the European Economic Community, in 1963.

Erdogan said he was pleased that one of his favored projects -- a "reconciliation of civilizations between Christianity and Islam" -- now rested on a "concrete base".

For their part, all 25 EU leaders, including the president of Cyprus, Tassos Papadopoulos, broke out in applause after endorsing the deal.

"It shows that those who believe that there is some fundamental clash of civilisations between Christians and Muslims are actually wrong, that we can work together," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a staunch backer of Turkey's EU aspirations.

While Turkey was the dominant topic at the EU's quarterly summit, there was good news for a trio of Balkan EU hopefuls as well.

Bulgaria and Romania, whose foot-dragging on post-communist reforms made them miss the last round of EU enlargement in May this year, were told they'd be invited to sign accession treaties in April next year.

That would finalise their membership from January 2007.

Croatia won the chance to start accession talks, in March next year, but on the strict condition that it fully cooperates with the UN war crimes tribunal that wants to try a fugitive Croat general for crimes against Serbs during the 1991-95 breakup of the former Yugoslavia.

Friday's breakthrough followed intense haggling centred on the Ankara Agreement, the accord which Turkey signed back in 1963 with what was then the European common market.

The EU wanted Ankara to immediately sign a protocol to update the agreement to cover the 10 newest EU member states, but for many that would imply de facto resignation of Cyprus -- something Turkey does not want to do yet.

The precondition met with a frosty response from the Turkish camp, until the draft agreement was reworded to allow Ankara to pledge that it will extend the protocol some time before the accession talks begin.

Erdogan, anticipating criticism back home, was adament at the end of the day that extending the protocol "is absolutely not a recognition" of the predominantly Greek Cypriot state.


Cyprus has been divided along ethnic lines since Turkish troops invaded its northern part in 1974 to stave off a bid to unite the island with Greece. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is recognised by no one except Ankara.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 07:37 pm
Lithuania Says Ready To Join EU Rapid Reaction Force
---------------
Rapid Reaction Force: Only takes four years...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Fri 17 Dec, 2004 07:40 pm
Laughing @ Lash

How Dennis-Millerish of you. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 18 Dec, 2004 01:06 am
Lash wrote:
Lithuania Says Ready To Join EU Rapid Reaction Force
---------------
Rapid Reaction Force: Only takes four years...


You have misinterpreted that, Lash:
it doesn't mean -in our understanding of the English language here in Europe - that this Reaction Force is to be build rapidly, but that there will be a a Rapid Reaction Force within the next years.


Quote:
EU approves rapid reaction force
European Union defence ministers have agreed to set up a military rapid reaction force, to be deployed at short notice to conflicts around the world.
The force, to be in place within three years, will consist of a number of units each made up of 1500 troops.

France, Italy, Britain and Spain will each form a unit, and other EU states will be expected to contribute troops.

Ministers expect the first of the battle groups to be operational by next year, with eight more by 2007.

The development is part of an EU effort to develop an independent defence capacity that can be deployed outside of US-led Nato missions.

UK Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon said the battle groups were not a precursor to the EU developing a standing army.

"Battle groups will be capable of dealing with a range of peace support and humanitarian tasks," Mr Hoon said.

"They are particularly intended for situations where an early intervention with a highly capable battle group-size force could deal with an emerging crisis."

Rapid reaction forces could be deployed to fill a gap before UN peacekeepers can be deployed, as a French-led operation did in the Bunia region of eastern Congo earlier this year.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/europe/4034133.stm

Published: 2004/11/23 00:21:37 GMT
Source

<edited: BBC article added>
0 Replies
 
 

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