25
   

FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
That was certainly so.

However, this was not a jota similar to what you said, namely "reforms of 04-05 which streamlined the process to get more immigrants".
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 03:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
reforms of 04-05 which streamlined the process to get more immigrants
I think that the entire purpose of reorganizing the government was to streamline the process. The mission statement was changed as well as the name, correct? It was before tasked to look after and integrate refuges, after it was primarily to supply German industry with cheaper labor....or am I wrong?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 03:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
.or am I wrong?


Yes. On the other, if you call someone earning more than (minimum) 60,000 Euros per year a "cheap labourer". you're correct.

My bad. I never belonged to that group.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 03:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

As Walter hints at when the German identity feels like it is getting submerged into the EU stew and vanishing there is not a lot of tolerance for non Germanic culture with-in Germany itself. Hell, they have already given up the Mark, the beer purity standards, and been inundated with cheap non local sausage...and the Ostlanders..At some point this needs to stop.

I don't think this is at all unique to Germans. Most people in the European Union make their own judgements about whether they are getting more than they are giving in the union and that influences their views. The Germans have some fairly good reasons to believe that they are giving a good deal more than they are getting fron the union and I suspect that is a factor (how big I don't know) in their reactions to all this.

Some Americans, themselves the grandchildren of immigrants, express resentment about contemporary immigrants. It weas that way here a century ago as well.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 04:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Yes. On the other, if you call someone earning more than (minimum) 60,000 Euros per year a "cheap labourer". you're correct.

The seeking of skilled labor is done under a special program with-in the department, but the entire department was renamed, reorganized, and I think re-tasked. Besides, in America we are well aware of industry claims that they can not find skilled labor, that they claim they need ever greater numbers of immigrants to take these jobs but then seeing that these claims are highly dubious. It appears that the labor market is tight, so industry (or hospitals, or schools..whatever) don't want to pay the going rate so they work to lower the scale overall by importing labor, but it was never true that there were not enough skilled people to run our economy. In America it is largely the same people who say that we need more high skilled workers as who say that we need more people overall, these generally being those who have an interest in keeping pay rates low.

While it is true that German unions will prevent the worst of the abuses that we see in America, I don't think that the unions are strong enough anymore to prevent them. Let us remember that it was Germany which greatly expanded the use of temporary work contracts in 2003, even as unemployment was above 9%, these same contracts are allowing German industry to shed significant amounts of labor costs at the expense of creating a two tiered workforce....those who work under the traditional rules and those who work under the american rules of labor having few rights or benefits. Even as far back as then the unions were losing to industry, and the imbalance has only gotten worse.

If Government has colluded with industry on immigration policy that turns out to be not good for Germany, for instance if it imports into Germany or creates in Germany anti West Muslim radicals who are willing to burn down Germany, the German government is going to have a big problem. Perhaps Merkel is now seeing this, now trying to get in front of the problem??

Edit: I am mystified as to how German industry gets believed when it claims it needs immigrants to function because it can not find labor....in a country where unemployment has been floating around 10% for over a decade. German work/study and apprentice programs were some of the best in the world in the 1990's..what happened?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 04:18 pm
I don't understand where this is going, but from my research on minimum wage, France's minimum wage is a little above US$22,000. I'm not sure how Germany's minimum can be 60,000 euros.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 04:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
but from my research on minimum wage, France's minimum wage is a little above US$22,000. I'm not sure how Germany's minimum can be 60,000 euros.
I think Walter is claiming that this is the min wage that can be offered by an employer to a potential employee to participate in a special immigrant import program which has been set up by the government.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 05:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Are they accepting Asian-American seniors? I would love to work for E60,000/year.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 05:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Germany's cabinet approved a plan on 16 July, 2008 that will attempt to reduce skilled labor shortages in sectors such as engineering and information technology.

"We have taken a step toward making Germany more competitive internationally," said Social Democrat Labor Minister Olaf Scholz, co-author of the plan with Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble.

"We are putting the conditions in place so that people can come here who can contribute to creating economic growth," he added.

According to estimates from the German government and other sources, the shortage of computer specialists, engineers, and other skilled workers is costing the country 20 billion Euros a year.

The approved measures include allowing graduates from new European Union member states to work freely in Germany from 01 January, 2009. These individuals will no longer have to prove that a German worker could not be found to fill the position.

To work in Germany, graduates from outside the EU will still have to show that a German citizen could not be found to fill the job. The German government will also reduce the wage that highly skilled foreign workers have to earn to be approved for a work permit from 86,400 euros to 63,600 euros
http://germany.visapro.com/Immigration-News/?a=935&z=68

Wow, they did this right before crash...talk about bad timing...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 05:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
But that's why Germany needs people like me who understands economics and finances.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Mon 18 Oct, 2010 12:51 pm
@georgeob1,
Merkel had to put her foot down on the utter failure of the "multi-culti" experiment after she gave in to the French on deficit countries' bailouts:
Quote:
"Creating a permanent crisis resolution mechanism without insisting on healthy budgets is like stocking cholesterol pills while continuing to binge on bratwurst and chateaubriand.”
http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/10/governing_euro&fsrc=nwl
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:12 pm
Quote:
Germany's Merkel is right -- multiculturalism has failedBy David Frum, CNN Contributor
The Germans, for obvious reasons, prefer their politicians dull. The current German chancellor, Angela Merkel, more than meets local expectations. So on the rare occasion when Merkel says something vivid, something important must be going on.

It is.

Speaking in Potsdam on Saturday, Chancellor Merkel told a gathering of young Christian Democrats that multiculturalism has failed.

That might seem to be saying the obvious
.
.
.
In the United States, immigrants are less likely than the native-born to collect welfare or other social benefits. In Europe, immigrants are radically more likely than the native-born to collect welfare and social benefits, with Third World immigrants collecting the most of all. That's the findings of a 2005 study by researchers at Prague's Charles University.

European voters have absorbed these uncomfortable data into a suspicious view of newcomer intentions: According to a recent study by the Friedrich Ebert think tank, 34.3 percent of Germans believe that migrants come to Germany primarily to receive welfare benefits.

Merkel's Potsdam speech did not cite those social problems.

In Germany, the problems created by immigration literally go without saying, and those who do try to talk about them rapidly find themselves ejected from public life. Thilo Sarrazin, a governor of the Bundesbank (and it's worth mentioning, a member of the left-of-center Social Democratic party) was pressured to resign his post in September after publishing a book arguing the failure of Germany's absorption of immigrants.

Yet in the words of Sigmund Freud, the repressed always return
http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/10/18/frum.merkel.multicultural/index.html?hpt=T2

It is no shock the Frum agrees that multiculturalism has failed, as he has never been in favor of it. However, he seems to think that is is highly significant that Merkel is willing to talk about it, pretty much claiming that talking about immigration is taboo in Germany. When I was in Germany the sense I got was that the masses talked about immigration problems often, but that the Elites ignored them. Frum has me wondering if radicalism ala the Tea Party might be in Germany's future.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Merkel faces pressure to take a tougher line on immigration, particularly on so-called "integrationsverweigerer" or those immigrants who show a lack of willingness to adapt to the majority culture, by, for example, refusing to attend German language classes.

While trying to embrace both sides of the debate, including repeatedly calling on Germans to accept that foreigners are a part of their country, Merkel cannot have ignored the popular response with which Sarrazin's book was received, nor the repeated polls in which Germans have indicated a growing intolerance towards immigrants which observers say is linked to fears about economic stability, even though the economy is showing strong signs of recovery.

Last week a study by the Friedrich Ebert foundation found more than 30% of people questioned agreed that Germany was "overrun by foreigners", while a similar number said they believed that some immigrants had only come to Germany to take advantage of its social welfare, and therefore "should be sent home when jobs are scarce".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-germany-multiculturalism-failures

Posted to support my claim that these comments were politically motivated..

Interesting that German has a word to describe immigrants who don't make enough effort to conform to the culture of their new country. I dearly wish that we had such a word in English, and there a great many Mexicans on whom we could use it..

Sarrazin is of course the guy who had the balls to write a book that violated the PC laws, and thus was punished. The masses have firmly supported both him and the correctness of his statements
High Seas
 
  1  
Mon 18 Oct, 2010 06:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Sarrazin is of course the guy who had the balls to write a book that violated the PC laws, and thus was punished. The masses have firmly supported both him and the correctness of his statements

The "masses" noticed the irony inherent in the man's name as well; Berlin headlines read "Sarrazin vs the Saracens":
Quote:
In a nutshell, Mr Sarrazin’s argument is that the right sort of German women are having too few babies and that the wrong sort—Muslims and those with little education—are having too many. The result is not only that Germany’s population is shrinking, it is also getting dumber. “With higher relative fertility among the less intelligent, the average intelligence of the population declines,” he writes.

On the facts he's unassailable. Demographics is a slow time bomb but a very reliable one. So's actuarial science. Countervailing policy is the hard part.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Oct, 2010 05:51 am
Reading the reports about yesterday's football ("soccer") match in Munich, I was just thinking about the discrepancies: the main stadium in Munich, the former Olympic stadium, has now got a Muslim, Turkish name: Ali Anz Arena.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Oct, 2010 05:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Ooops. My bad! It's called Alianz Arena, a German insurance company is the sponsor ... Wink
High Seas
 
  1  
Wed 20 Oct, 2010 11:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No it is not called that - or at least the name isn't written that way. Besides, you got the location of the name fight wrong - it's Nurenberg, not Munich:
Quote:
Doch die Initiative, die gegen die Bezeichnung “easyCredit- Stadion“ kämpft...In der Landeshauptstadt tritt der Versicherungskonzern Allianz als Namensgeber des Stadions auf. Doch der derzeitige Name der Nürnberger Arena genieße “keinerlei Akzeptanz“. Vielmehr noch: “Ganz Deutschland lacht über diesen Namen“

"EasyCredit Stadium"?! Here in New York we have twice-bailed out Citigroup naming a stadium "Citi Field" - but your name is funnier still Smile
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 20 Oct, 2010 11:46 am
@High Seas,
Yes, I've written the name incorrectly:

Quote:
The Allianz Arena is home to Bayern Munich, ...


And re 'your' stadium:
Quote:
On March 14, 2006, the stadium was renamed EasyCredit-Stadion, for a period of five years, after a financing product of the German bank DZ Bank AG.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Mon 17 Jan, 2011 04:33 am
Quote:
The tragedy of the Euromess is that the creation of the euro was supposed to be the finest moment in a grand and noble undertaking: the generations-long effort to bring peace, democracy and shared prosperity to a once and frequently war-torn continent. But the architects of the euro, caught up in their project’s sweep and romance, chose to ignore the mundane difficulties a shared currency would predictably encounter — to ignore warnings, which were issued right from the beginning, that Europe lacked the institutions needed to make a common currency workable. Instead, they engaged in magical thinking, acting as if the nobility of their mission transcended such concerns.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/magazine/16Europe-t.html?hpw

OUCH!

I might of have been wrong about the EU...Up till a couple a years ago I was a great believer in it, I believed that the Europeans were much more civilized than the Americans and understood better what was important. But the EU has not worked very well, and I have changed a lot, I have become very concerned about the beating down of the individual by the state, a problem that is far worse in Europe than in America, though we are moving in the same direction.

Maybe Krugman is being DR DOOM again, IDK........but I get very nervous when anyone gets this negative about Europe.
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Wed 3 Dec, 2014 07:02 am
ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS!!!


http://www.davidicke.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/get-attachment-23-587x445.jpg

 

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