25
   

FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 12:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Turns out he already had heard (his source appears to have been Schäuble) about this coming down the pike:
Quote:
A first question: why is Germany talking about setting up a European Monetary Fund? Let me answer that with another question. Is Germany really pushing for the creation of an EMF any time soon? True, the German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, launched the idea this weekend. And in a meeting with foreign correspondents in Berlin on Monday, Mrs Merkel said: "We want to be able to solve our problems in the future without the IMF." But in the same meeting, as the FT reported on its front page this morning, she expressed the view that creating such a fund would require changing the EU treaties. Given that a changed treaty would need ratification in all 27 countries, and given the agonies that went into ratifying Lisbon, and given the pledge of Britain's Conservatives to hold a referendum on any transfer of powers to the EU if they are in government when such a move is proposed, Mrs Merkel was effectively signalling that the idea is one for the far horizon. There is also the small detail that the German monetary establishment, in the form of the head of the German central bank and one of the top German officials at the European Central Bank, have jumped on the idea of an EMF, calling a dangerous distraction and a "sideshow" from the central priority of maintaining fiscal discipline within the euro zone.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/03/european_indecision
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Tue 8 Jun, 2010 07:38 pm
Someone on Reddit asked: "what is the stance of the [Dutch] parties towards expanding the EU, namely Croatia?"

Good question, so I looked it up. And I thought I might as well cross-post the info here (as well as on the Dutch elections thread):

Quote:
OK, so I'm looking at the websites of the different parties, and seeing what I can find on Croatian accession to the EU. Interesting exercise, actually.

  • The Socialist Party (SP) website emphasizes that EU accession has taken place "too quickly and too carelessly". It notes that the party was against the accession of Bulgaria and Romania, and that most countries that have been given a prospect of EU membership - and it mentions Iceland, Turkey, Macedonia and "the Western Balkans" here - still "have a long way to go". Croatia, however, seems to be OK: "The accession requirements, the so-called Copenhagen criteria, have to be upheld strictly. With the exception of Croatia, the SP therefore does not see any new member states join the EU in the upcoming years." The party does demand a referendum before any new country is accepted, however.

  • The Green Left uses distinctly different language. EU expansion, the party's website starts off, "increases security in Europe. The EU is after all a zone of peace and prosperity" - although, it continues with a frown, it's true that there's really quite a lot of countries wanting to become members now. However, it sternly reminds the reader, "promises create debts", as a Dutch saying goes: "The EU can not leave he Western Balkans in the lurch, but must help these countries with the intensive reforms that are needed for EU accession." In practice, the path that the Green Left charts forward isn't actually all that different, however: "For most countries, this [process] will, even in the most favourable scenario, still last many years." The party believes that Turkey and Croatia "can join the EU as soon as they meet the criteria. Especially in the case of Turkey this will still last a long time. [..] Croatia is well underway to membership, but still has to push back corruption more."

  • The Labour Party (PvdA) does not address the issue of EU expansion in general in its main "points of view" pages. Instead, it has a page only about the accession of Turkey. "A democratic, safe, stable and Europe-oriented Turkey constitutes an important interest of the EU," the page starts off, pointing out that as such a country, Turkey could become "an important fundament for durable peace and security in Europe." However, "the EU accession criteria are strict," and in light of existing deficiencies on human rights, the rule of law and democracy, there is currently "absolutely no prospect of establishing an accession date for Turkey."

  • A boo to the Democrats D66 for making it harder to find this info. Once you dig up their party program, a 94 page PDF, however, there is a very concise point indeed, down on p.89, in the section about the EU: "Open for accession. The European Union is, in the view of D66, always open for new members. Countries - such as Turkey as well - can join the EU if they fulfill the accession criteria."

  • The Christian-Democrats/CDA are also succinct, and their pro-European perspective is clear: "The CDA considers the expansion of the EU positive. European integration assures the EU member states of prosperity, peace, democracy and human rights. The Netherlands has an interest in this too. The CDA thinks the EU should deal carefully with new expansion. The countries that want to become members of the EU do first have to meet all criteria."

  • The right-wing liberals of the VVD have an English translation of their party program! It's short and sternly worded about Turkey's accession chances: "Turkey does not enter the EU, as long as it does not meet 100% of the EU accession conditions (Copenhagen criteria) and all of the EU member states have expressed their support for membership themselves. Moreover, the accession negotiations must be stopped as longs as Turkey refuses to recognize Cyprus by not ratifying the Ankara Protocol." Nothing about other countries though. On their Dutch-language page about Europe, the VVD adds distinctly more woolly language: "The so-called Copenhagen criteria which new members must meet have been comprehensively integrated in the new treaty" - referring to the Lisbon treaty, I guess? - "and it will also be taken into consideration whether Europe can process such expansion. The VVD strongly agrees with this. The VVD is satisfied that the silence about the debate in Europe has now, partly thanks to the insistence of [the VVD], been broken."

  • Surprisingly, the small, culturally conservative Christian Union also has an English translation of its program. It minces no words: "NO EXTENSION OF THE EUROPEAN UNION ANY TIME SOON. The European Union has expanded significantly in recent years. Now is the time to reduce the pace of enlargement. Let us first concentrate on ensuring cooperation between the current 27 member states improves and find ways to increase the speed with which decisions are taken with so many member countries. If the European Union should permit new members in future, these countries must always be located on the European continent, such as Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and the countries of the Western Balkans. The ChristenUnie is of the opinion that due to geographical, historical, and cultural reasons Turkey cannot be permitted as a member of the EU. Turkey resorts under the European Neighbourhood Policy, however, and as such is eligible for special ties of cooperation and support. However, Turkey will then need to meet certain requirements: Freedom of religion, freedom of association and the freedom to establish political parties."

  • The Freedom Party / PVV has a 59-page party program online. It has a one-sentence "solution" about EU expansion: "EU: Turkey in, the Netherlands out". LOL. To get an idea of the perspective that informs this "solution", the program has some choice words about the EU: "Another source of harm to our democracy goes by the name of European Union. The EU is starting to look ever more like the old Soviet Union. It's the EUssr. [..] Brussels tries to keep going with massive propaganda. But the billions of tax money that are being spent on it can't hide that EU nationalism can count on ever less support. [..] Economic and monetary cooperation is great, but the Netherlands as province of a European super state is something nobody is waiting for. So the EU should limit itself to a European Economic Community. We're going to take their flag down, their 'president' can go amuse his grandchildren and they can go sing their anthem under the shower. The Netherlands must stay!" That should bolster the PVV's standing as the DUtch equivalent of the Tea Party... this is the first time, in any case, that I've heard of the concept "EU nationalism".


The most interesting thing, I suppose, is that apart from the Freedom Party and the Christian Union, the Dutch parties really share a broad consensus on the subject. There are differences in tone and choice of language, but in practical terms, they all pretty much seem to agree on the basics.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Sat 16 Oct, 2010 01:52 pm

Angela Merkel says multiculturalism in Germany is a failure.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 16 Oct, 2010 02:45 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
Angela Merkel says multiculturalism in Germany is a failure.

I think that this was predictable once it became clear that after paying for unification the Germans were immediately called upon to pay for construction of the EU, and that it is now clear that these bills are going to come in huge. A strong shift to the right is the natural result, as the people have increasingly become impoverished by the grand dreams that have been attempted. I saw a shocking poll a few months back about how unification is seen by many to have been a failure, a mistake, and I for one never expected that the Germans would fail to do that to a good result. It now increasingly looks like the EU dream will fail as well, and this double whammy as the Germans look at their way of life slipping away as their bank accounts drain away paying EU bills in spite of decades of hard work has got to be upsetting.


You will see the same thing in France I believe, though I dont watch France much I see enough to know that Sarkozy is dimly regarded and that the french are now extremely concerned about the costs of having so many Muslims and gypsy's with in their borders, which indicates to me a move to the right.
McTag
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 10:07 am
@hawkeye10,

Certainly there is an economic side to this, but I believe Frau Merkel was talking particularly about the cultural side of integration, of lack of integration, where many incomers do not adopt German ways or even attempts to learn the language properly, instead grouping together in foreign enclaves within the host country.

There was a British politician called Enoch Powell who warned about these dangers, four decades ago, and he was largely vilified for speaking out in those terms.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 10:29 am
@McTag,
I remember that Powell made his "Rivers of Blood" speech in 1968 - had been a topic in English classes when I was at school in those days.
McTag
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 10:36 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Hi Walt

Well, Powell was an intellectual, and a classics scholar. He was quoting from a passage in Latin, an old prophecy: "Methinks I see the Tiber foaming with much blood."

He wasn't too far wrong, but his speech was howled down and he never recovered politically.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 11:47 am
@McTag,
Quote:
Certainly there is an economic side to this, but I believe Frau Merkel was talking particularly about the cultural side of integration, of lack of integration, where many incomers do not adopt German ways or even attempts to learn the language properly, instead grouping together in foreign enclaves within the host country
I am betting that Merkel was not speaking with her social scientist hat on, but rather her politician hat. Back in the mid Nineties in Germany the complaint I heard about the Turks was a combination of their refusal to integrate and contribute but also about how much public resource they sucked up.

The Americans announced that we were leaving Munich @1992 with a turn over date of Military housing @1995. There was a huge public upset over the government plan to use the housing for refugees rather than to sell them off to Germans. At that time there was a housing shortage in Munich. The American housing was in very good shape, Electrical and plumbing less then 10 years old, almost new roofs, brand new balconies, the interiors had been well maintained. Almost every German I talked to said that if the Turks moved in they would destroy the place in three years, that putting such resources towards them was a waste. While it was never said outright the impression I got from Germans was the the Turks were unwelcome dirty leaches.

I think that much like the case in Arizona the distaste and feeling of being sucked dry by parasites can be tolerated when the economy is OK, but as the money runs out it is less so. I further think that Merkel was not of a mind to be a policy wonk, but was rather saying what she knows almost everyone agrees with with an eye towards her and her parties political survival.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 11:50 am
@McTag,
I read Merkel's statement, and my impression from my visits to Germany is that she was largely accurate. I'm not sure just what conclusions she may be drawing from these observations, presumably directed mainly at the Turkish population of Germany, some who have been there for two generations now. Germany is more dependent now on imported workers than it was soon after WWII, when it all started, and the demographic data indicates this need will grow.

Perhaps she sees a solution in the mobility of labor from within the EU. However, that too presents related problems, though perhaps more easily bridged.

Assimilating large foreign populations is never easy for any country, and a good deal of social and economic turbulence accompanies it almost everywhere. Both the host group and the immigrants experience some cultural changes. The U.S. has certainly seen its share of all this, though most of us believe that in the long run it has enriched us.

I believe this assimilation is generally less difficult in a more free market economic environment and that the social welfare structures that have developed - on both sides of the Atlantic - over the past few decades make the process more difficult.

All this will remain a challenge for us all - Europe will continue to need foreign labor to run its economy, and the United States will continue to attract immigrants seeking to better their lives while we deal with the contradictions increasingly imposed on the process by our growing entitlement systems.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 12:03 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
All this will remain a challenge for us all - Europe will continue to need foreign labor to run its economy,
Short of peace between the West and Islam importing more Muslims is not an option. So where does Europe go, the former Russian Empire maybe?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 01:19 pm
@georgeob1,
That she was largely correct .... is just and only because "her star" is falling and because she tries to follow vox populi.

'Impoting workers' from other EU-countries is
a) as difficult
b) you have to find them since are paid better elsewhere (mainly due to our regulations about "certified labourers"

We have had such problems with "foreigners" here in Germany since ages - I always like to pint at the so-called "Polish workers" in the Ruhr district (they were actually and mainly Germans, but of Polish origin). Even in the 1950's/60's people referred to them as 'Pollaks' - though they were living there in fourth and fifth generation.

When looking at this (German) problem, you should perhaps a look at a map of Germany from pre-1870. (Or even an earlier map - what I mean is .... e.g. I was born in the [Cologne] Dukedom of Westphalia, live now 10 miles away in the Bishoply Principality of Münster, in a village, which is now part of a town which was a condominium of the Dukedom of Berg and the Principality of Lippe ....



Besides that, we take different measurements here (in Germany) and there (in the USA): vox populi now gets loud when some "foreigners" have some tradional festivity .... that's not German. And politicans catch the wave.
The same politicans who liked a few years ago this as part of an 'open Germany', and 'populi' are exactly those, who fly twice per year to Turkey because it's cheaper than in Spain ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 01:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
A poll, presented in Berlin by the Friedrich Ebert foundation for political education (FES) (a Social-Democratic Party foundation) last week, showed that xenophobic views are taking a greater hold among the German public than previously.

One quarter of people questioned (more than 2.400) said they longed for a “strong party” that “embodies German society.”

More than 30 percent agreed with the statement, “foreigners come to abuse the welfare state,” said the FES survey.

Even more people - 31.7 percent - said that in a limited job market “one should send foreigners back home,” and that too many immigrants put Germany in danger of being “overrun” (35.6 percent).

Anti-Islam views were particularly strong in the FES poll, which surveyed 2,400 Germans aged between 14 and 90.

Just over 58 percent said that “religious practice for Muslims in Germany should be seriously limited,” and that number rose to 75.7 percent for people from former East Germany.


Link to above mentioned study (in German only)
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 01:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Assimilating large foreign populations is never easy for any country, and a good deal of social and economic turbulence accompanies it almost everywhere. Both the host group and the immigrants experience some cultural changes
As Walter hints at when the German identity feels like it is getting submerged into the EU stew and vanishing there is not a lot of tolerance for non Germanic culture with-in Germany itself. Hell, they have already given up the Mark, the beer purity standards, and been inundated with cheap non local sausage...and the Ostlanders..At some point this needs to stop.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 01:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
As Walter hints at when the German identity feels like it is getting submerged into the EU stew and vanishing ...


Sorry that I gave that impression. I didn't want to say anything even close to it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Hell, they have already given up the Mark, the beer purity standards, and been inundated with cheap non local sausage...


I didn't know such about the beer purity standards and the sausages - the sausages are actually now specially protected by EU-laws and the beer standard ("Reinheitsgebot") is as it was in 1516, with even stronger regulations due to EU-laws (like the sausages, it's now a "protected traditional food") ....

[You certainly know that no beer could be brewed using wheat according to that ancient law .... Weizen, 'wheat beer' has been since centuries ....]
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Recently, concerns about “failed integration” and disappointing performance of second and third generation immigrants drew the attention of research to the determinants and prerequi-sites of integration. In contrast to U.S. literature, which pays more attention to host country attitudes, especially the existence of discrimination, Hönekopp (2000) and Suntum and Schlotböller (2002) see a poor education and lower qualifications of immigrants to Germany as main reasons for their poor performance in labour markets. This in turn prevents immi-grants from a more intensive social integration. Therefore, the authors recommend the im-provement of education and qualification levels of immigrants, in particular basic skills, such as their knowledge of German language and culture, as measures enhancing integration.
http://www.emn.at/immigration/docs/b03.pdf

How embarrassing for the German government that there was already proof of the failure of the immigrants to perform before the reforms of 04-05 which streamlined the process to get more immigrants. This turns out to be a case where the people were right all along about failed immigration policy, and the German Government excuse that they now realize that they made the mistake of importing inferior people does not help keep the government in the good graces of the people. The masses expect to be listened to, and expect there public policy experts to be competent.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The sausages & mustard are still wonderful.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:27 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
the sausages are actually now specially protected by EU-laws
Yes, after a huge outcry for the Germans, the EU grudgingly agreed to some standards to pacify...as I recall. I have not looked at this recently.

Quote:
the beer standard ("Reinheitsgebot") is as it was in 1516
The way I understand it until the EU raised a stink German brewers by law had to follow the standard. Now it is both optional and the Brewer does not need to warn the public that the standard is not being followed. They may choose to follow it, and market their product as such, which I have read just about everyone has done.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

How embarrassing for the German government that there was already proof of the failure of the immigrants to perform before the reforms of 04-05 which streamlined the process to get more immigrants. This turns out to be a case where the people were right all along about failed immigration policy, and the German Government excuse that they now realize that they made the mistake of importing inferior people does not help keep the government in the good graces of the people. The masses expect to be listened to, and expect there public policy experts to be competent.


a) it was a governmental agency, which published the report you quoted from,
b) it was about what was done in the past - no-one actually sugarcoats the education of the former gastarbeiter
c) I've never heart of " reforms of 04-05 which streamlined the process to get more immigrants" nor could I find anything online. I do remember, though, and could easily give some links in English that around this time, the government started legal efforts to reduce immigration ...
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 17 Oct, 2010 02:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
On November 1, 2007, Germany implemented a set of reforms to the country's immigration system. 1 The reforms, announced in August, are an attempt to address problems of shortages in the skilled labor markets of Germany. 2 For many years, Germany has faced a growing shortage of skilled native-born workers needed to fill essential positions. 3 In the past decade, Germany has increasingly looked to immigration as a solution to this labor shortage. 4 Many Germans had hoped that these problems would be resolved by a controversial immigration reform in 2005. 5 However, foreigners attempting to work in Germany have continued to face sometimes insurmountable hurdles to entry and have instead gone to work in the more liberal economies of countries such as the United States and United Kingdom.
https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=22+Geo.+Immigr.+L.J.+367&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=c2311832bf2b1f011986bb6af9aefffa

In 2005 there was both a program added to get high skilled workers, as well as a compete reorganization of the office that handles immigrants, to include a renaming of the department. I think both reforms were passed in 2004, I am not sure when the reorganization of the government took place.
 

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