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FOLLOWING THE EUROPEAN UNION

 
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Wed 21 Dec, 2005 03:28 pm
They DO seem a trifle heavy in the trouser department. I thought it was just the cold weather.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 21 Dec, 2005 03:31 pm
You didn't get some kilos of the Moore bronze as well?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 22 Dec, 2005 10:11 am
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/eu/comment/0,9236,1672344,00.html

Gavyn Davies does the maths

Blair's EU rebate is a mere budgetary footnote
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:31 pm
No, that guy is missing the point , IMO Nimh.

It is not the "Isolationist" (biased, or what!) in the UK that is making the fuss over the rebate, it is the rest of the EU.
If, as the article suggests, the EU budget is such a piffing amount, then it follows that the rebate is even more piffling.
My point is all about the principle of fair play. Chirac (and followers) has gone out of his way to portray the UK as greedy in this whole thing, when at the same time his country pays a lot less (net) than the UK.

I once again, refer you to the BBC Graph and article. I would like to hear your views on the fact that, without the rebate in the equation, the UK would have been paying almost six times as much (net) as France (net).
Do you not see why the rebate was demanded in the first place?

....even with the rebate in place, the UK still pays a lot more (net) than France (net).

The entire budget needs reforming. Blair has shifted considerably and has forfeited quite a bit, but Chirac refuses to budge an inch.

Just who IS the bad guy in all of this?

Lord Ellpus wrote:


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/lordellpus/rebate.jpg


"However, the UK's net contribution would have been bigger even than Germany's, had it not been for the rebate.
Although France and Italy made a larger gross contribution, the EU also spent a lot more money in those countries than it did in the UK.


If France had not paid 1.5bn euros towards the UK rebate, its net contribution would have been just 1.6bn euros, while without the rebate the UK would have made a net contribution of 9.9bn euros."......


Taken from....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4721307.stm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:37 pm
Just looking at the graph, it looks like Germany is paying the most from Gross to Net, and France looks like their bellowing is the loudest with their Net down to fifth place.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:13 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Just looking at the graph, it looks like Germany is paying the most from Gross to Net, and France looks like their bellowing is the loudest with their Net down to fifth place.

Yep.

Plus, if you translated the above graph to per capita amounts, you'd see that the amount every individual Dutchman, Swede, etc contributes, net, to the EU, isnt at all as much less than what the Brits pay as the graph suggests.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 22 Dec, 2005 07:18 pm
nimh, Per capita contribution would be more meaningful for this discussion. Do you happen to have that info? Sure would love to see it if it does exist.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 24 Dec, 2005 01:53 am
Quote:
Germany Will Receive EU2 Billion Less From EU Budget From 2007

Dec. 23 (Bloomberg) -- Germany will receive 2 billion euros ($2.4 billion) a year less in payments from the European Union from 2007 to 2013 as more money goes to new eastern European member states for infrastructure and agriculture subsides, the German government said.

The newspaper Berliner Zeitung reported today without saying where it obtained the information that Germany's net annual payment to the EU budget will rise to 10.4 billion euros, making it the biggest net contributor in relation to the size of its economy. Germany paid a net 8.5 billion euros in 2004, it said.

``The scope of the media report is about right,'' Thomas Steg, the deputy spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel, told a regular government press briefing in Berlin today. ``The net contributor position will actually change.''

Leaders of the 25 EU member states agreed on Dec. 17 on the a new seven-year budget worth 826.4 billion euros, overcoming a feud between U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair and French President Jacques Chirac over Britain's money-back guarantee and France's agriculture subsidies. Merkel helped to negotiate the compromise.

The actual payments to the EU from the federal budget, which will rise from 21.9 billion euros next year to 22.8 billion euros from 2007 to 2013, are decisive for the German government, Steg said. Germany has always tried to limit payments to a maximum of 1 percent of the country's gross national income and will now contribute 0.95 percent, he said.

Merkel also succeeded in getting an extra 225 million euros for structural funds in eastern Germany and 25 million euros for Bavaria's border region with the Czech Republic.

``That is a very good outcome to the negotiations,'' Steg said.
Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 24 Dec, 2005 01:54 am
The above lead to:

Quote:
Merkel attacked as deal makes Germany biggest EU donor

By Tony Paterson in Berlin
Published: 24 December 2005

Angela Merkel's reputation as a European summit broker was severely tarnished when it was disclosed that Germany is to become the highest net contributor to the EU budget, with its payments increased by €2bn (£1.4bn) a year.

Germany's first woman Chancellor was showered with praise, particularly in the British press, for preventing the collapse of last weekend's EU summit which enabled Tony Blair to present his controversial face-saving formula on the British budget rebate.

But new estimates on future EU budget contributions, published yesterday in Berlin, showed that as a result of Ms Merkel's brokering, Germany would see net payments rise by €2bn a year, bringing its annual contribution to €10.4bn. "In relation to its economic strength, Germany will become the biggest net contributor to the EU budget," the Berliner Zeitung said. In recent years, the Netherlands has been the biggest.

The paper also noted that Ms Merkel's budget compromise flouted an agreement between her governing coalition partners, which stipulated that Germany should aim to have its budget contributions cut. Christine Scheel, of the Greens, said: "Merkel was praised from all sides for her wonderful achievement, but if it means that Germany's contribution will increase considerably, there is a hair in the soup."

Hermann Otto Solms, of the liberal Free Democrats, said: "This highly acclaimed compromise is financially irresponsible."

Ms Merkel's government conceded the budget increases were in store. A spokesman, admitted: "We will be paying less than we expected to pay but more than we have done in the past." The bigger contribution was needed to finance increased aid to the EU's new east European member states. "All the major west European industrial nations face the same problem," he said.

Angela Merkel's reputation as a European summit broker was severely tarnished when it was disclosed that Germany is to become the highest net contributor to the EU budget, with its payments increased by €2bn (£1.4bn) a year.

Germany's first woman Chancellor was showered with praise, particularly in the British press, for preventing the collapse of last weekend's EU summit which enabled Tony Blair to present his controversial face-saving formula on the British budget rebate.

But new estimates on future EU budget contributions, published yesterday in Berlin, showed that as a result of Ms Merkel's brokering, Germany would see net payments rise by €2bn a year, bringing its annual contribution to €10.4bn. "In relation to its economic strength, Germany will become the biggest net contributor to the EU budget," the Berliner Zeitung said. In recent years, the Netherlands has been the biggest.
The paper also noted that Ms Merkel's budget compromise flouted an agreement between her governing coalition partners, which stipulated that Germany should aim to have its budget contributions cut. Christine Scheel, of the Greens, said: "Merkel was praised from all sides for her wonderful achievement, but if it means that Germany's contribution will increase considerably, there is a hair in the soup."

Hermann Otto Solms, of the liberal Free Democrats, said: "This highly acclaimed compromise is financially irresponsible."

Ms Merkel's government conceded the budget increases were in store. A spokesman, admitted: "We will be paying less than we expected to pay but more than we have done in the past." The bigger contribution was needed to finance increased aid to the EU's new east European member states. "All the major west European industrial nations face the same problem," he said.
Source
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Sat 24 Dec, 2005 01:59 am
Stollen cake. Germany's best contribution to Christmas.

Not forgetting Prince Albert's Tannenbaum, of course.

A merry European Christmas to all.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 24 Dec, 2005 02:17 am
Nollaig Chridheil, McTag!
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Thu 29 Dec, 2005 06:04 pm
The Turks haven't learned the British way of denying past atrocities

It is not illegal to discuss the millions who were killed under our empire. So why do so few people know about them?

George Monbiot
Tuesday December 27, 2005
The Guardian

In reading reports of the trial of the Turkish novelist Orhan Pamuk, you are struck by two things. The first, of course, is the anachronistic brutality of the country's laws. Mr Pamuk, like scores of other writers and journalists, is being prosecuted for "denigrating Turkishness", which means that he dared to mention the Armenian genocide in the first world war and the killing of the Kurds in the past decade. The second is its staggering, blithering stupidity. If there is one course of action that could be calculated to turn these massacres into live issues, it is the trial of the country's foremost novelist for mentioning them.

As it prepares for accession, the Turkish government will discover that the other members of the EU have found a more effective means of suppression. Without legal coercion, without the use of baying mobs to drive writers from their homes, we have developed an almost infinite capacity to forget our own atrocities.Atrocities? Which atrocities? When a Turkish writer uses that word, everyone in Turkey knows what he is talking about, even if they deny it vehemently. But most British people will stare at you blankly. So let me give you two examples, both of which are as well documented as the Armenian genocide.

In his book Late Victorian Holocausts, published in 2001, Mike Davis tells the story of famines that killed between 12 and 29 million Indians. These people were, he demonstrates, murdered by British state policy. When an El Niño drought destituted the farmers of the Deccan plateau in 1876 there was a net surplus of rice and wheat in India. But the viceroy, Lord Lytton, insisted that nothing should prevent its export to England. In 1877 and 1878, at the height of the famine, grain merchants exported a record 6.4m hundredweight of wheat. As the peasants began to starve, officials were ordered "to discourage relief works in every possible way". The Anti-Charitable Contributions Act of 1877 prohibited "at the pain of imprisonment private relief donations that potentially interfered with the market fixing of grain prices". The only relief permitted in most districts was hard labour, from which anyone in an advanced state of starvation was turned away. In the labour camps, the workers were given less food than inmates of Buchenwald. In 1877, monthly mortality in the camps equated to an annual death rate of 94%.

As millions died, the imperial government launched "a militarised campaign to collect the tax arrears accumulated during the drought". The money, which ruined those who might otherwise have survived the famine, was used by Lytton to fund his war in Afghanistan. Even in places that had produced a crop surplus, the government's export policies, like Stalin's in Ukraine, manufactured hunger. In the north-western provinces, Oud and the Punjab, which had brought in record harvests in the preceeding three years, at least 1.25m died.

Three recent books - Britain's Gulag by Caroline Elkins, Histories of the Hanged by David Anderson, and Web of Deceit by Mark Curtis - show how white settlers and British troops suppressed the Mau Mau revolt in Kenya in the 1950s. Thrown off their best land and deprived of political rights, the Kikuyu started to organise - some of them violently - against colonial rule. The British responded by driving up to 320,000 of them into concentration camps. Most of the remainder - more than a million - were held in "enclosed villages". Prisoners were questioned with the help of "slicing off ears, boring holes in eardrums, flogging until death, pouring paraffin over suspects who were then set alight, and burning eardrums with lit cigarettes". British soldiers used a "metal castrating instrument" to cut off testicles and fingers. "By the time I cut his balls off," one settler boasted, "he had no ears, and his eyeball, the right one, I think, was hanging out of its socket." The soldiers were told they could shoot anyone they liked "provided they were black". Elkins's evidence suggests that more than 100,000 Kikuyu were either killed or died of disease and starvation in the camps. David Anderson documents the hanging of 1,090 suspected rebels: far more than the French executed in Algeria. Thousands more were summarily executed by soldiers, who claimed they had "failed to halt" when challenged.

These are just two examples of at least 20 such atrocities overseen and organised by the British government or British colonial settlers; they include, for example, the Tasmanian genocide, the use of collective punishment in Malaya, the bombing of villages in Oman, the dirty war in North Yemen, the evacuation of Diego Garcia. Some of them might trigger a vague, brainstem memory in a few thousand readers, but most people would have no idea what I'm talking about. Max Hastings, on the opposite page, laments our "relative lack of interest" in Stalin and Mao's crimes. But at least we are aware that they happened.

In the Express we can read the historian Andrew Roberts arguing that for "the vast majority of its half-millennium-long history, the British empire was an exemplary force for good ... the British gave up their empire largely without bloodshed, after having tried to educate their successor governments in the ways of democracy and representative institutions" (presumably by locking up their future leaders). In the Sunday Telegraph, he insists that "the British empire delivered astonishing growth rates, at least in those places fortunate enough to be coloured pink on the globe". (Compare this to Mike Davis's central finding, that "there was no increase in India's per capita income from 1757 to 1947", or to Prasannan Parthasarathi's demonstration that "South Indian labourers had higher earnings than their British counterparts in the 18th century and lived lives of greater financial security.") In the Daily Telegraph, John Keegan asserts that "the empire became in its last years highly benevolent and moralistic". The Victorians "set out to bring civilisation and good government to their colonies and to leave when they were no longer welcome. In almost every country, once coloured red on the map, they stuck to their resolve".

There is one, rightly sacred Holocaust in European history. All the others can be denied, ignored, or belittled. As Mark Curtis points out, the dominant system of thought in Britain "promotes one key concept that underpins everything else - the idea of Britain's basic benevolence ... Criticism of foreign policies is certainly possible, and normal, but within narrow limits which show 'exceptions' to, or 'mistakes' in, promoting the rule of basic benevolence". This idea, I fear, is the true "sense of British cultural identity" whose alleged loss Max laments today. No judge or censor is required to enforce it. The men who own the papers simply commission the stories they want to read.

Turkey's accession to the European Union, now jeopardised by the trial of Orhan Pamuk, requires not that it comes to terms with its atrocities; only that it permits its writers to rage impotently against them. If the government wants the genocide of the Armenians to be forgotten, it should drop its censorship laws and let people say what they want. It needs only allow Richard Desmond and the Barclay brothers to buy up the country's newspapers, and the past will never trouble it again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1673991,00.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 30 Dec, 2005 12:23 am
Quote:
It is not illegal to discuss the millions who were killed under our empire. So why do so few people know about them?


I suppose that's a really different question than why it is illegal in Turkey.

At least, not talking about it and/or not being (that much) taught isn't a reason to loose EU-membership :wink:

Interestingly, a similar discussion is going on in France, Spain and Portugal as well about their history re colonial times.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Fri 30 Dec, 2005 01:30 pm
REVIEW OF THE YEAR: THE EUROPEAN UNION

Deep divisions betray a union in name only...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 30 Dec, 2005 02:09 pm
Hmm, the "forecast" for the UK Presidency of the EU 2005 had been a lot better than the actual result.

I've my doubts that Austria will do any better - hopefully, with Finlands presidency in the 2nd half of 2006 some good decissions will come to work.

However, Austria might chart the course of future EU-Russian relations (although, momentarily there are tough difficulites conserning the Russia-Ukraine gas dispute.
0 Replies
 
Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Sun 1 Jan, 2006 11:57 am
JustWonders,
Thank-you for your contribution. It has stirred my mind.

Walter, are you one of those fellows who sleeps little and keeps his mind constantly engaged? I am constantly amazed by your detailed contributions
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 2 Jan, 2006 02:36 am
Quote:
Sunday, 1 January 2006

Austria sees constitution on hold

The Austrian president, whose country has taken over the presidency of the EU, has said he expects no major moves towards an EU constitution this year.


Heinz Fischer, whose role is largely ceremonial, told the BBC's The World This Weekend programme that 2006 was likely to be a period of reflection.

Moves towards an EU constitution floundered last year after "No" votes in France and the Netherlands.

Austria takes over the six-month EU presidency from the UK.

President Fischer told the BBC he supported the idea of an EU constitution, but that it would not happen this year. However he said he expected intense discussions on the issue.

As Austria began its EU stint, Chancellor Wolfgang Schuessel was hosting his German counterpart for talks in Vienna. She has said she is keen to renew the debate over the constitution.

Mr Schuessel has called for a new mood of confidence in the EU, but said recently: "We won't create a new Europe in the next six months."

Austria's challenges

Correspondents say rebuilding popular support for the EU will be one of Mr Schuessel's key challenges, with recent opinion polls suggesting Austria is among the most Eurosceptic nations.

As Mr Schuessel faces parliamentary elections later this year he will be under pressure not to be too eager to push forward European integration, reports the BBC's European affairs correspondent William Horsley.

Several decisions are due in the next six months, which could blow up into serious disputes, given the rival positions of various European leaders, our correspondent adds.

They include detailed preparations for Turkey's application to join the EU, winning the European parliament's approval for the EU's long-term budget, and enacting a new version of the controversial services directive, which is designed to lift barriers to internal EU trade.

The services directive is one of the liberalising measures being pushed by Britain and others but it is fiercely opposed by another group including France.

Under Austria's leadership, the EU is also set to decide whether Romania and Bulgaria are ready to join the EU in 2007, or whether they must wait another year.
Source
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 6 Jan, 2006 07:51 am
Quote:
French Deem Mitterrand as Best PresidentPolling Data

In your view, who is the best president of the Fifth Republic?

François Mitterrand
35%

Charles de Gaulle
30%

Jacques Chirac
12%

Georges Pompidou
7%

Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
5%

No reply
11%

Source: CSA / Libération
Methodology: Telephone interviews with 952 French adults, conducted on Dec. 21, 2005. No margin of error was provided.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jan, 2006 11:03 am
France needs to find a Ronald Reagan, a Winston Churchill or a Margaret Thatcher.

Otherwise, they're doomed.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jan, 2006 11:27 am
Would be quite difficult to govern France only speking English, I suppose. Besides, both the French president as the French PM must be (native) French :wink:

However, the former cabinet minister Ségolène Royal has begun to outdistance all other potential candidates for the centre-left in the next French presidential election.
Royal, 52, although dismissed by many as a lightweight, is now a strong contender to become the first woman presidential candidate for a leading French political party.
0 Replies
 
 

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