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Wed 29 Nov, 2006 03:15 pm
Jesus and the Stoners ?
While reading the threads and listening to various views, One notices that in the minds of some, a glaring misconception about Jesus has taken hold. Because of an incorrect understanding of the story about the woman who is caught in adultery, those who stand in opposition to capital punishment, have come to the incorrect assumption that Christ shares their view. And because of this flawed assumption, the anti-capital punishment crowd routinely invokes that story to buttress their view that capital punishment should be eliminated.
In order to comprehend that story, it is very important that Believers understand the characters of the woman's accusers. The Pharisees who were always demanding justice when others committed crimes, were and are the biggest and most corrupt group of religious criminals the world has ever seen. While they are exacting justice for the crimes which others had committed, they themselves are doing the same things and worse. But because of their positions, power, and intimidation of the people, no one until Jesus, dared to question or cross them. Jesus sees the hypocrisy of these Pharisees and he is disgusted by it. And because he is not intimidated by their false appearance of religiosity, he is not afraid to challenge their hypocrisy. So, when the Pharisees bring this woman for stoning, Jesus is not challenging the legality or the inhumanity of the punishment; instead, he is challenging the hypocrisy and the unequal justice of the administers.
Now, to challenge this hypocrisy and unequal justice, Jesus makes the now famous statement, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." From this one statement, comes the incorrect assumption that Jesus is conveying the message that because no man is without sin, then there should not be any judging or capital punishment. This is categorically wrong. This is because if this were the case, then Jesus would also be implying that there can be no justice system at all. After all, sinful man is in charge of all justice systems. And if a man with sin is not allowed to cast stones, then there can be no judges. And if no judges, no legal system. And if no legal system or means of accountability, there would be chaos.
So, in that statement, Jesus is not speaking of all sin or all men. Instead he is speaking directly to the sin of adultery in reference to the Pharisees. You see, the only difference between that woman and the Pharisees was power and position. All of the Pharisee who are there to accuse the woman are doing the same thing. All of them from the oldest to the youngest are corrupt and committing adultery. The only difference is that their power and positions afforded them protection and cover. But it did not offer them cover from Jesus. He saw their corrupt ways and challenged them on it. This is why they hated and detested him without a cause. And this hate and detestation drove the Pharisees and there group to kill or destroy Jesus and anyone who is for uncorrupted truth and justice.
Finally, during that engagement, Jesus is not condemning capital punishment. Instead, he is condemning the corrupt Pharisees and their manipulation and corruption of the justice system. And because justice had been corrupted, it was not equally or equitably meted out.
So questions; Who are the Pharisees in your life? Who are the hypocrites is your life?
Have you become a Pharisee? Have you become hypocritical?
Are you or anyone that you are aware of, currently in the act of doing something which you are condemning others for?
You that preachest that a man should not abort or support abortion, do you murder and support murder?
Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Romans 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
At an academic conference, a paper on Irish abortion saints of the Middle Ages was presented.
That was in response to one of the red questions in the original post.
plainoldme wrote:That was in response to one of the red questions in the original post.
And how did that answer one of the questions?
Sigh! go back and read it.
Yes. When I read Bullshit by a pinhead, I usually respond, "Jesus was anti-CP."
Can you not think?
Do you refute the Beatitudes or was Jesus just riffin' on a theory?
Lash wrote:Yes. When I read Bullshit by a pinhead, I usually respond, "Jesus was anti-CP."
Can you not think?
Do you refute the Beatitudes or was Jesus just riffin' on a theory?
Where does he mention capital punishment in the Beatitudes?
I thought this was going to be about how Jesus took one blunt and stoned the multitudes..... I AM disapointed......
Mindonfire wrote:Lash wrote:Yes. When I read Bullshit by a pinhead, I usually respond, "Jesus was anti-CP."
Can you not think?
Do you refute the Beatitudes or was Jesus just riffin' on a theory?
Where does he mention capital punishment in the Beatitudes?
Turn the other cheek....
How can anyone read the peace and brotherly love in the Beatitudes and stretch their head to think the same man can approve of electrocuting someone to death?
Lash wrote:Mindonfire wrote:Lash wrote:Yes. When I read Bullshit by a pinhead, I usually respond, "Jesus was anti-CP."
Can you not think?
Do you refute the Beatitudes or was Jesus just riffin' on a theory?
Where does he mention capital punishment in the Beatitudes?
Turn the other cheek....
How can anyone read the peace and brotherly love in the Beatitudes and stretch their head to think the same man can approve of electrocuting someone to death?
What does turning the other cheek have to do with justice? Just because you turn the other cheek does not mean that you forsake justice when it is needed? If that is the case then there should be no justice system. Just turn the other cheek. Evertime somebody steals, turn the other cheek. Everytime somebody murders, turn the other cheek. Everytime someone rapes a woman, turn the other cheek. Are you all that dull?
Mindonfire wrote:Lash wrote:Mindonfire wrote:Lash wrote:Yes. When I read Bullshit by a pinhead, I usually respond, "Jesus was anti-CP."
Can you not think?
Do you refute the Beatitudes or was Jesus just riffin' on a theory?
Where does he mention capital punishment in the Beatitudes?
Turn the other cheek....
How can anyone read the peace and brotherly love in the Beatitudes and stretch their head to think the same man can approve of electrocuting someone to death?
What does turning the other cheek have to do with justice? Just because you turn the other cheek does not mean that you forsake justice when it is needed? If that is the case then there should be no justice system. Just turn the other cheek. Evertime somebody steals, turn the other cheek. Everytime somebody murders, turn the other cheek. Everytime someone rapes a woman, turn the other cheek. Are you all that dull?
Perhaps I
am that dull. Enlighten me. How do you find support for CP in the words attributed to Jesus?
Perhaps you should cite specific evidence that Jesus was anti-CP, instead of reading something into His words which is not there.
By 'turning the other cheek', did Jesus also oppose jail?
By 'turning the other cheek', did Jesus also oppose fines?
By 'turning the other cheek', is He expecting us to simply ignore it when others do wrong?
When you are assaulted?
When you are raped?
When you are kidnapped?
When you are ripped off?
Just pretend it didn't happen?
It should be obvious that you are reading something into Jesus' words which is not there, unless you can find instances where He specifically said what you are trying to attribute to him.
CP was in progress on the famed adulteress.
He stopped it.
That's pretty conclusive to me.
I guess if we can scare up someone who is without sin--they can be in charge of pulling the switches.
Is that you?
hi Lash,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your willingness to discuss.
Two thieves received a capital sentence and were executed, one on either side of Him as He was crucified.
He didn't stop either one from being executed.
Why is one instance 'conclusive' , but the other (I assume you would say) is not?
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Also , no answer regarding 'turning the other cheek'?
You state that it means Christ was 'anti-CP'.
Does it also mean he was 'anti-jail'?
'Anti-fine'?
'Anti-punishment' of any kind?
Why would we read one 'anti' into this phrase , but not all the others?
real life wrote:hi Lash,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your willingness to discuss.
Two thieves received a capital sentence and were executed, one on either side of Him as He was crucified.
He didn't stop either one from being executed.
Why is one instance 'conclusive' , but the other (I assume you would say) is not?
Do you feel he was in a position to stop their executions?
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Also , no answer regarding 'turning the other cheek'?
It strikes me as meaning not to kill people as retribution. What did it mean to you?
Quote: Everytime somebody murders, turn the other cheek. Everytime someone rapes a woman, turn the other cheek. Are you all that dull?
No but you are clearly imbecilic.