Whiteness Studies

"Please stop addressing me." A bold maneuver. I shall try it.

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Yup and the circle can go forever. I find it odd that you seek to apply it to others first. You ask snood if he is prejudiced against whites and the questions beg:

Craven- Whatever I ask of others, I am constantly evaluating in myself.

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Does the train tracks run both ways? Have you found that you despise certain traits in others that you possess yourself?

Absolutely. I would be the last one to say that I am completely even handed in my evaluation of people. I would also say that I DO have some knee-jerk prejudices. What I attempt to do, is understand where these feelings are coming from, and do my best not to ACT on those feelings.

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Do you think that if a person expects goodness in people, he will find it? If you choose to focus on the bad in people, will you find that too?

Of course. I think that I am just as prone to falling prey to the "halo effect" as most other people. Again I have to keep checking up on myself to see that my perceptions are valid, and that I am not permitting myself to be taken in by any prejudices that I might have.

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cavfancier wrote:

www.alllooksame.com (take the test....let us know how you do)

Interesting site. I got 12 out of 18. Yay! Very Happy

I only got one of the Japanese ones wrong, but I have a harder time telling Koreans from Chinese. It gets a lot easier recognizing the general look of a country when you've lived there, naturally.

(PS: I dunno about Koreans & Chinese, but many Japanese would not appreciate it or would think you lacked culture if you told them they looked Korean or such.)

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...This thread brings to mind a curiosity I've pondered for years; The word ethnic. In usage, it has always seemed to refer to any race but white. Meanwhile I felt that it should refer to any designated race, including white, but sure enough, I walk into a Rite-Aid drugstore, and there is an aisle called "Ethnic Hair Care", and yes, it's the "Colored section".
...Before posting this, I checked my "Webster's Collegiate". The second definition concurred with my belief, of what ethnic means. However,... the first definition jumped out at me in bold letters....HEATHEN! Shocked

Hmmm.....

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Monger, as per your PS, that is what I have heard from my brother, who lived in Japan, and is married to a Japanese women. The official stuff was done in Japan, and the party is next month here in Toronto Very Happy

I found this link on that site, dunno if you have checked it out, but I thought it was hilarious, especially the new 'performance art option': www.origamiboulder.com

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Yep - I see nothing to carp about in whiteness studies - the name itself being a neat way of making you think, and what I read of the curriculum sounds interesting - but I would have to be convinced that race is a white concept - Chinese and Japanese at least, to my knowledge, having been fairly prejudiced about it for a loooooooooooong time - before we whites HAD a culture the Chinese would say - and have, some of them, to me.

Interesting in what appears to be the current political climate in the US (and, sadly, here) that universities are starting to run such courses. (Of course, one always has an extremely simplistic view of the political climate in another country from so far away.)

For those of you saying such courses are anti-"healing" - my belief, for what it is worth, tends to be that deep and serious wounds need to be thoroughly examined and cleaned before they can heal.

There is a similar class of reaction to the bringing to light of the details of white/black history here - it was articulated by our Prime Minister, as he brazenly used racism and back-lash to help him to his job (and very effectively so), as being a "black arm-band view of history" promulgated, he said by "the Aboriginal industry."

Nearly made me wear a black arm band for my country and any hope of reconciliation, that did...

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Heavens, Booman - shows how ignorant I am - I would have assumed ethnic to mean any group not from the dominant culture in any country - so it would include whites in non-European countries.

Shows why I could do with some whiteness studies!

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Generally addressing a previous post, I am one, who agrees that white folk (honkies), don't identify with whiteness. I don't think many of us whities are waking up and putting on the mantle of our race.

Do think because of societal pressures, black and Hispanic people do.*

Also agree with the truth about US founding fathers finding it's way into educational history.

The idea that race was an intentional construct is stupid. I think it was a natural racism, when white folks looked, saw people who were different, and felt superior to them. If you are walking around in twenty layers of clothing and a powdered wig, and hear of a society of people largely naked, barefoot, Godless and taken with frightening rituals-- you will not find many people in the 17-1800's, who wouldn't feel superior. Rightly or wrongly.

*I was surprised Asians had feelings of not belonging, due to the honkies' general reverence for their quick assimiltion, work ethic and general high test scores.

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snood, I do not agree totally with your thesis. The reason most texts are written by whites is clearly evident - to me atleast - that they had a headstart in our educational system. To my knowledge, I don't know of any university that is holding back any minority from publishing educational textbooks. I know of some very good black writers/educators that have published many good textbooks that are used by our educational system. Nothing is all black or white. We will always find bigots in every culture and race, so emphasizing whiteness is out of context to the whole issue of race relations. What I have seen and experienced, at least in the US, is progress in educational and economic opportunities. I have seen our Asian minority family extended to many cultures and races during my life time. I see the cup as half full, not half empty, thank you. c.i.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

snood, I do not agree totally with your thesis. The reason most texts are written by whites is clearly evident - to me atleast - that they had a headstart in our educational system. To my knowledge, I don't know of any university that is holding back any minority from publishing educational textbooks. I know of some very good black writers/educators that have published many good textbooks that are used by our educational system. Nothing is all black or white. We will always find bigots in every culture and race, so emphasizing whiteness is out of context to the whole issue of race relations. What I have seen and experienced, at least in the US, is progress in educational and economic opportunities. I have seen our Asian minority family extended to many cultures and races during my life time. I see the cup as half full, not half empty, thank you. c.i.

...and I don't agree "totally" with your ideas, either - vive le difference!

< or, is that "la"?>

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snood wrote:

For those of you who have said they should just immerse it in the regular curriculum, and not make such a big deal of it, I submit to you for your contemplation that other classes, like economics, politics and history, are already about whiteness, but from a different direction, that's much less apparent. By and large, they are written by and are about white people. This is the water in which students swim, and only those who never have to think about it, never even realize they're in it.

Snood, who were you referring to with the "just immerse it" part? What I saw patiodog saying, and BillW agreeing with, is that while it SHOULD be part of the regular curriculum, it isn't. Not that there is something wrong with the "Whiteness Studies" curriculum itself.

patiodog wrote:

It kind of smacks to me of, "Well, as an institution we don't have the guts to include these ideas in our actual history curriculum, so we will make an indpendent discipline of it, one that we can use to recruit certain people and make jokes about to certain of our major supporters." Just a gut reaction, though, and I really don't have any problem with what I glean of the curriculum.

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sozobe wrote:

snood wrote:
For those of you who have said they should just immerse it in the regular curriculum, and not make such a big deal of it, I submit to you for your contemplation that other classes, like economics, politics and history, are already about whiteness, but from a different direction, that's much less apparent. By and large, they are written by and are about white people. This is the water in which students swim, and only those who never have to think about it, never even realize they're in it.

Snood, who were you referring to with the "just immerse it" part? What I saw patiodog saying, and BillW agreeing with, is that while it SHOULD be part of the regular curriculum, it isn't. Not that there is something wrong with the "Whiteness Studies" curriculum itself.

patiodog wrote:
It kind of smacks to me of, "Well, as an institution we don't have the guts to include these ideas in our actual history curriculum, so we will make an indpendent discipline of it, one that we can use to recruit certain people and make jokes about to certain of our major supporters." Just a gut reaction, though, and I really don't have any problem with what I glean of the curriculum.

Soz, I hear you. And maybe it was just a matter of interpreting differently what was said. Bottom line, I think its something to be made a "big deal" of, and tend to resist any hints of minimalizing its importance to achieving that ever-elusive harmony, as if ignoring it will promote healing.

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Sofia wrote:

Godless and taken with frightening rituals--

Lynching, and cross-burning come to mind.....Also those that thought Africa was Godless, and found their rituals frightning, did so out of ignorance.

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Right, snood. Definitely agree that ignoring won't promote healing. I like dlowan's analogy of needing to clean out that wound before it can truly heal, as opposed to the "picking at the scab"/ "keeping the wound fresh" terminology. Throwing a bandaid over a festering sore doesn't accomplish much.

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I don't dispute your remark, Booman. 'Twas why I was sure to say rightly or wrongly--but that doesn't change what the racism was likely based on.

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It seems so much simpler to me to just say racism is based on ignorance, rather than constructing a whole working paradigm to support certain groups' ignorance.

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Sofia,
...If I seemed a little testy, or judgemental, I apologize. Due to personal problems, this might not be a good time for me to be engaged in incendiary subjects. I may be looking for a fight. Embarrassed

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snood wrote:

Yes, Patiodog - certainly in part, anyway.

And cav- I got 4 out of 18 right - "hopeless" "might as well flip a coin".

got 10

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You are good, Boo.
I realized it was an unPC description and I hesitated. But, I am trying to speak clearly and shed myself of the PC that has been attaching to my statements.

I took care to say Godless, instead of godless. The regular white folk were under the impression their God was the only one.

I thought a brief description of the two groups may lead to an enhanced example of how racism rooted between the American settlers, and the society of blacks, who became the object of racism. Hell, showing ankle could get you thrown out of polite society.

I prepared for misunderstanding of my statement or intent, and understood your comment. :wink:

I am sincerely sorry about your current stressors. Sad

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Whiteness Studies

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