Whiteness Studies

Tim Wise, the person who wrote the article snood posted had this to say after I emailed him:

Funny that GWB thinks that peaceful protest is only ok "over there". And the protesters should be protected from harm!

Soooo, I e-mailed Tim Wise earlier today and here is his response:



"thanks so much, as it is always nice to hear such effusive praise for anything i have written...glad it meant so much to you.

my articles are all over the place, mostly here:

http://www.zmag.org/bios/homepage.cfm?authorID=96

and also at www.alternet.org and www.lipmagazine.org

Glad to hear from another Jew in the Goodman/Schwerner line...there were far too few of those in my synagogue, to be sure...


Take care

Tim Wise"

That was a great article. It really put things in perspective. I have to admit, a lot of us Canadians are really naive to the deeply entrenched racial divide in America. In all honesty, most of us, at least those who live in urban centers, are simply not used to it. A client told me a story the other night about a friend of hers, a white woman, who was assistant to the boss, a black woman. The two of them went to a conference in Atlanta. The assistant called down to the desk to ask for an iron, so she could press her clothes before the conference. They brought the iron to the boss, assuming she was the white woman's maid. She screamed at them and tried to explain that if they got something wrong again, it would be their asses and hers. All to no avail...upon checking out, the porter picked up the assistant's bags and put them on the cart. Not only did he make no effort to pick up the bosses bags, when she put them on the cart herself, he promptly removed them. Black people carry their own bags, it seems. They are both Canadian, and were absolutely horrified at the whole situation, and I doubt either one of them will be going back to Atlanta any time soon. When I hear stories like that, the 'Whiteness Studies' program starts making a whole lot more sense.

cav, I've posted this in another forum in A2K, but deserves mentioning here. Today's local newspaper has an article about discrimination in housing in the San Jose area. It seems blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are treated differently than whites. When any of these minorities ask to rent, they are either told falsely that no vacancy exists or are quoted higher rents. What was surprising about this investigation is that Asians suffered the most discrimination in this study at 22 percent. c.i.

Yo, ci and Cav:

from West Side Story --

I like to be in America
Life is alright in America

If you're all white in America

Hey, we have our American-style urban problems here as well, but nothing like what goes on down there. If that conference had been in Toronto, no hotel anywhere would treat people like that based on race. It just doesn't happen. My wife is so mixed up in terms of her heritage, she is not sure what race she is. We won't be going to Atlanta any time soon though. The one race she doesn't have in her is white, heh. Anyhoo, a long time ago, I had to make a stopover in Atlanta at the airport, as my flight back home was cancelled. My first impression was: "Oh my god, all the menial jobs are being done by Black people, and all the uppity ones by Whites." It was so GLARINGLY obvious, I was embarrassed to be White! Mind you, I am the sort of person to pick an argument with someone expressing blatant racism....it is truly a wonder I have never had the crap beat out of me. I ended up waiting hours to see if I could get a flight out only to find out I had to wait till the next day. I ended up chatting with one of the 'slaves' who drove the little trolley all around the airport. I said, "No offence, but I'm from Canada, and I couldn't help but notice that..." We had a really cool talk. It enlightened me a lot. Then I was put up in a swank room in a hotel overnight, and I can tell you, all the free porn and room service in the world wouldn't have cured the pit in my gut.

aw cav - ya old softie...

that touched my pea-pickin heart.

Hell, I can take that sarcasm lying down...

No, man - I mean, I actually, honestly felt empathy with what you were feeling at the time, in the airport, with your wife...

Cool snood, sometimes it's hard to tell, but thanks. It was a truly moving thing for me....and my wife has way more problems than me travelling, that is for sure.

snood, I wanted to relate another story actually, which may be appropriate here. Growing up Jewish, all I heard about constantly was how much our people suffered, what a horror the Holocaust was, and all of that is true. The family made good on preserving our traditions, and giving us a good Jewish upbringing. It was all about the persecution of our people. I have to say though, the racist comments and stories that went on behind closed doors...oy! It wasn't even just about people of colour, it was about other 'White' folk as well. My grandparents used to run a dry-cleaners (this would have been just post-WWII). The neighbourhood started to change. An Indian family moved in (India, not native Canadian). My grandmother's vitriolic response to them when they first brought in their dry-cleaning was "Sorry, we don't do Saris."

Later in life, she softened her views, I think partly because her daughter, my mom, went into social work. Strange thing is, now, since both her parents have passed on, my mom once in a while seems to find herself sounding a bit like her mom, then catches herself. Well, the chickens do come home to roost eventually. I married my lovely Catholic-Muslim-Carib-African-Saudi whatever wife, my brother married a Japanese woman, one cousin is moving in with a Black woman even Black people would find a stereotype, and another cousin is gay, and dating a Palestinian. Vive la difference!

This brings me to a question actually: Smoothing over Black/White relations is a truly needed thing, however it gets done. How do we face same-race prejudice though? How do we educate people out of discrimation of religion, geography, whatever? Catholics and Protestants come to mind, and African Blacks against American Blacks...also, non-Jamaican West Indians who hate Jamaicans? Where does it end? It almost seems an inssurmountable problem.

Yeppur, it is a humongous problem. I guess I try to take a swipe at it whenever it crosses my path. And I hope talking about it helps. Now, since you've been so kind as to share a slice of the Cavster, lemme tell you why I think I felt what you were saying...

My wife (we've been separated for over a year now after 7 years of marriage, and are just starting to hint at reconciliation lately) is white (omigod - ther goes my cred! :wink: ). She and I used to really be flabbergasted at some of the trips the public would try to lay on us when we were out together in certain situations. The one situation I want to share with you is when we were car shopping a few years back. We both noticed how, whenever we would approach a salesperson they would always make eye contact with her, and direct the conversation to her, as if she just had to be the brains of this outfit, if you know what I mean. She would very plainly steer them back to me, sometimes comically, like "Oh, he speaks English, too!" or, "hey, talk to him". But one couldn't help but get the overall impression that in business situations, there is a tendency on the part of some (at least all the car salesmen we talked to, anyway)
to think as if the white partner had to be the one doing the negotiating.

An eye-opening experience - not the first, and not the last, but one I thought noteworthy.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, not just for us, but for other interracial couples we know as well. The story behind my brother's wedding was that neither side of the family wanted it to happen, until they actually made an attempt to communicate with each other. Now it is all smoothed over. Had they not made the effort though, who knows?

I should add, it was the parents on either side, the rest of us were thrilled.

snood, Don't feel too bad. chuckle, chuckle.... The first time I walked into a Cadillac dealership here in Silicon Valley, the sales people completely ignored me. After about 15 minutes, I just walked out, went to another dealership, and bought my Cad. Stupid business practices deserve to lose business. If they like the color of my money, that's okay by me! c.i.

Snood
Wherever I go people prefer to talk to my wife too. And we are both approximately the same color. Like you said about the delivery guy possibly simply not liking me, maybe there is another element makes them want to talk to the woman. Just a thought - not being contentious about it.

It's possible...

Well, Cav & Snood, just got back on-line and was interested in your recent postings. So, Cav, does your wife's family have any problem with your being a Jew or since you identify as just White, does that help or hinder their acceptance of your relationship? And, Snood, how about your wife's family? Do they have any problems with you being Black or does your own family have any problem with you marrying a White woman? Are both your families happy to see your separation end? I know I hear the sound of hearts breaking all over A2K.

Also, I agree that studies of intragroup prejudice would be very important to look into further. For example, Cav, as you know: there are Jews and there are Jews... A lot have remained very liberal and still identify as a Jew (like me, I want to shout "Say it loud: I'm a Jew and I'm proud!"; others have assimilated into the majority culture, such as those who have changed their minds on affirmative action and so on. And, in Snood's case, I know you have seen the Republican party trot out their resident right-wingers; Clarence Thomas comes to mind, but there are many others, and they, like Clarence, also generally have White wives as if to somehow help them appear as if they are now part of the oppressor class. It would be interesting to see what drives some men to "have to"
marry those of other races and some men to just marry those they love who happen to be of other races: you 2 should start the research as you certainly both seem to be well-versed in the subject.

Borrowing a leaf form the Book of Snood . . .

This discussion is just mired in silly, pseudo-intellectual rationalization . . . there is absolutely nothing wrong with white people . . . i know lots of 'em, and, apart from being a little dense about song and dance, and given to wearing dull colors, they're not a bad lot . . . I let 'em get in line in front of me--it's just so gratifying to see the look of childish pleasure and vindication they get . . . i try to compliment them on their sense of style ( ), "Hey, that's a nice tie . . . "--you know, instill a sense of self-worth in 'em . . . An them middle aged women, with the teased hair, wearin' five pounds of foundation make-up, and lookin' like a Miro paintin' done while he was hopelessly inebriated? I like to flirt with them . . . they just simper and swing their hips . . . you gotta watch it, though, i murmered sweet nothings to one of 'em, you know, like "destined for greatness" an' "ordained to rule the lesser races for their benefit"--Jeeze, i'll tell ya, i thought she was gonna rip my clothes off right there in front of god and ever body . . .

In an even less serious vein . . . it cracks me up in a dark humorous sort of way, that i and my ancestors and cousins the Irish are about the white-est people on earth, and we've been treated to the tender ministrations of second-class citizenship by the Angle-ish in the homeland of our people for millenia . . .

Bein' Irish, an' dumpin' all of the christian baggage, though, is kinda like bein' a "sleeper" in the white world--we can pass like nobody's business . . .