I agree that the south is no worse than the north. And, CI, I made an aside acknowledging that chicanery takes place in even the more civilized elections. By and large, what I said is true.
I think most of us that does any readinng of the political pages of our newspapers are aware of voting chicanery in elections. And I also agree with your assessment on the other ideas of your post, and never argued that point. c.i.
Hello, did anyone click on Soz' link? If so, you would have read the following (partial) post made by her:
"The idea has been put forth in many, many discussions here, that people who wish to effect change should be less "in your face." Gay people don't help their cause by wearing black leather ensembles and making out in Gay Pride parades. Black people would be listened to more if they just toned down the rhetoric already. What is with those silly environmentalists living in trees?"
That's very well-stated - nobody got her tone?
I've just recently discovered the pain (again) of trying to participate in another thread re a subject which disintegrated into a load of anti-Semitism; I would respectfully request that we stay on-point. Snood's desire for thoughtful answers to this topic is not too much to ask, IMHO.
sweetcomplication
I have read the other thread. In many ways it plays in with what we are saying. A movement such as the one for civil rights is massive. There are times when the in your face tactic works the best, but the movement has progressed enough that at times more subtle approaches can have their place, too. I will be in the face of one bigot and try a whole other tactic with another.
EB: that's all well and good; now which tactic will you take while responding to this Whiteness issue?
edgarblythe wrote:Which do you suggest?
As previously stated:
"Snood's desire for thoughtful answers to his topic is not too much to ask, IMHO."
I wrote this to go on the "Extreme Edge" thread, but it went in a different direction than I intended, and I think it may belong here since it was started by comments here. I'll write something more on-topic for "Extreme Edge" later. I hope this isn't too off-topic.
First, I've been told I'm uppity and take things too seriously fairly often when it comes to deafness. I'm not, and I don't.
The 78th time I am spoken to like I have an IQ of 50, I have far less patience than the first time that happened. The 32nd time I submit my application for a job, get a message to set up an interview, and then when I return the call via relay am hurriedly told that the job has been filled, or is no longer available, or that the interviewer's aunt has died and she won't be interviewing after all, I have far less patience than the first time. The 45th time I attempt to talk to a coworker and am met with monosyllabic answers, uneasy glances, and a quick exit, I have far less patience than the first time.
And here's the thing -- sometimes the 78th time, the 32nd time, the 45th time, THEY REALLY DIDN'T MEAN ANY HARM. The person always speaks that slowly, or the aunt really did die, or Ms. Monosyllabic really really had to go to the bathroom. Maybe they deserved to have me wave a hand and say "oh, it's all right." But let me tell you, 78 consecutive instances of gritting ones teeth and waving one's hand does not make for a healthy or happy person.
All of these happened, but to expand on one... I used to work in an office that dealt extensively with people with disabilities. I was the head of the deaf services section, but we all shared a lunchroom, etc. I would regularly approach hearing colleagues, chat, etc., but got nothin'. NOTHIN'. One of my (hearing, but signing) employees, told me I should socialize more. These were nice people, he said. I told him that I'd TRIED, early and often and on an ongoing basis. He said, no, no, I don't believe you. You're being standoffish. (I hired him after I'd already worked there about a year.) I know what a great person you are, and these are some really nice people too.
So, I went ahead, with him lurking inconspicuously. I turned on the charm full-blast, which can be formidable. Not just "how 'bout this weather," but asking interested questions about how a specific job frustration was going, making funny comments, etc. NOTHIN'. Uneasy smiles, nods, quick retreats.
We went back to our area and Ivan (my employee) was just floored. He couldn't believe it. He agreed that I'd been totally nice, totally friendly, totally unintimidating. But people were just plain freaked. (I can lipread, but they knew I was deaf, and, well, they were freaked.)
My reaction, at a few different points, was to ask my boss to allow me to give a workshop called "Deafness 101". It was funny, polite, collaborative. I've gotten raves on it from various corporations. My co-workers sat through it, even laughed at the funny parts, but didn't change.
So when, later, I happened to see one of those people saying something about "those deaf people" being stuck up and anti-social, I stepped into his line of sight and said "WHAT did you just say??" I was not polite. I got in his face. I was professional, but I took him to task. He said "don't be so sensitive." I said "don't be so idiotic." I made him explain why he would think such a thing, I explained my point of view, we had a long discussion that included some onlookers and came to a rather satisfying conclusion. Things changed a little after that.
People say "don't be so senstive", and I say "walk a mile in my shoes before you presume to judge."
Context.
So, EB, you want the ball to be in my court, then? I just read every page of this entire thread and found many posts of mine from around page 2 to around page 22 or so, including the following:
"... THE TOPIC IS WHITENESS, ie WHITE SKIN PRIVILEGE: address and redress, so why are y'all unable to deal with INSTITUTIONAL RACISM? It's not about blame; it's not about ageism, sizeism, anti-Semitism even; it's about a long-standing problem right here in the good old U.S.A. It's not a joke, but I guess it's time to face the fact that our little microcosm just can't deal IMHO . . ."
In other words, I want people here to be able to tolerate having an honest discussion concerning how they perceive their pigmentation to have affected them. If white, will you finally realize how many things you take for granted? If not, will you finally believe black people have had a special burden placed upon them stemming from slavery and continuing right through today's less obvious, but still pervasive, unequal treatment?
I understand that color-blindness might exist in a perfect world, so it definitely doesn't anywhere on
our planet; and certainly not at all in the United States.
I understand that white people are sick and tired of hearing about affirmative action and institutional racism.
I imagine that black people are sick and tired of white people just not getting it!
Okay, have at me:
Why would I have at you? You did very well back then. As for myself, I have conducted myself very well on this thread. I was balking at your trying to push me, perhaps suggesting I had no right to post the things I did. When the person who started this thread tells me I am going against his wishes I will respond as he requests.
Alright..Break it up you two....If you can't debate together nicely........
. . . You must be at A2K . . .
(heeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . . bad doggy . . . )
Setana,
...If we finish each others sentence, people will talk. :wink:
Snood, thank you for your comment including me.
If I ever see you holding a fly, I'll holler....
Sweetcomplication
I hold you in high esteem. We can just move on and all will be well.
