Whiteness Studies

OR.....attract more attention Cav,

Oooh, didn't think of that....

I've only just hit this thread so I don't know the details of what's been said. I did take that test back on the 1st page and scored 9.

In these modern times whatever colour or race a person is should be considered irrelevant. Ok white, black, asian, we all have pride in our roots and heretage. And so we should. But not to the detriment of those of other pigmentation, race or religion.
I know I am white and what that means. I know that racism is still rife in some areas of the UK and I'm ashamed of that. I don't give a tinkers cuss what color a person's skin is.

Oh Booman you and I have exchanged posts for a while now. We have a good vibe man. After just a few notes from you and I knew you were black. But you had the drop on me bro, it made me smile and laugh cos you new right off I was a white Limey. love it man. It's cool

Be cool OAK

Hey Bill ,, cool as a cucumber. Time to roll a smoke

just like the other one!

Well, people - I got banned for a while; I called Frank Apisa an asshole.
(they didn't say what the infraction was, but I'm guessing that, because its the only thing I could think of I've said of that kind)

Anyway, I'm back - not chastened, but a little more cautious about what I say.

I'm a little disappointed, but not at all suprised by the direction this thread took - started off with some indignation from some toward me, impugning my intentions for starting the thread, some people trying to approach the topic as food for thought and acknowledging the tendency some others have for denial in this area, and a couple who just can't figure out why in the hell I'd want to talk about this at all...

It seemed to spiral down into what I'm sure a lot of us have in our everyday routines at work - lighthearted, unsubstantial banter which gives the appearance of already having the quality of harmony that would require no "whiteness studies", no affirmative action, no desire on the part of some (like me) always to loose the bonds of convention, and ruffle feathers in favor of illumination. Well, as someone just said in one of the posts immediately prior to this one, "It's cool." Whatever floats your boat, as they say. Mine just requires a little more reality to keep it afloat, I guess.

Snood, unfortunately we live in an imperfect world. A world that has double standards, sometimes triple standards. As you say banter is part of life. Peoples sensitivities can misinterpret things when no harm was intended, though the words may of had a basis in racism.
My own opinion is that racial problems are only cleaned out by education as we move from one generation to the next. Where I live we have a very mixed community. Many races, tongues and religions. We also have harmony. Not saying that everything in the garden is perfect but it ain't bad, people do live and work side by side and get along just fine.

I didn't see the thread going anywhere. That's why I left it.

Snood- One thing that I have learned in life, is that one cannot change people's hearts and minds by shoving one's own idea down people's throats. If anything, overagressiveness in delicate, emotionally charged areas just might engender the opposite effect.......anger, and even more defensiveness.

It looks like the members took the thread exactly to where they wanted to take it. Remember the old saying, " you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!"

I hear, ya, Edgar. And old and new, I don't doubt that there are instances of harmony. I experience some things that make me proud of the human race sometimes, with other members of my recovery group.

WHAT?!....

OAK....You're white? Wow, ya' think you know people. I thought it was the lighting, in your picture.

...BTW, I have a confession to make. I took that test, a long time ago, and was to miffed to admit my results. I'm miffed, because, before taking the test, I expected to score, almost perfect on it. since I moved to NYC, 20 years ago, I discovered the difference in oriental facial structure, and it became, a little thing I did, to learn to distinguish, and identify the country of orgin. Just a few weks ago, I was showing off*, while in the prescence of several Asian people, while at an X-ray facility. I made such an impression on those guys, but felt so pissed off when I took the test,and scored a six. Gr-r-r-r...

...*I mentioned my ability, and a couple of the guys encouraged me to "show off". That's usually, a private thing with me.

Hmm - I am not altogether certain that Snood's intention in starting the thread was to catch flies.

And there, my furry rabbit friend, laid the crux of the problem!

I didn't take the thread that way at all. I thought it was put out there as a means for thinking some things through, of maybe having just a little bit of an honest discussion about what people really thought, or thought they'd like to see. And I certainly didn't think of it in terms of Snood trying to catch any flies. That didn't seem to be his purpose at all.

I do think, however, that most people are afraid to look at how they honestly feel, and not from bad intentions. They don't want to offend; they're afraid to look at some things; keeping it light is safer. I, too, thought this thread was going somewhere else. I think most of the respondents here are people who do think and care, but have noted some recent threads and don't like what they see. And don't want to perpetuate that.

But here is where a good thread could operate. So many of were appalled by the direction abuzz was taking, and looked here for relief.

I liked this thread, snood.

Keep it up...You people are going to drive me sane.

That is an interesting comment, though - how DO we change things, or people's minds - (which may be the same thing, in the end)? Is it through gentle persuasion? Is it through anger and demands? Is it through different things at different times?

On issues such as this, I am not sure if we can ever be perceived as using honey, because, mostly, we want to close our eyes to difficult things - especially when we are part of them, and often this means some anger directed at the person who insists on declaring that the Emperor is STILL, in important ways, unclad. I know, as I have stated above, that I always find difficult emotions are raised in discussions of racism in my country.

I've been in lots of threads, that are red hot, then we'll get in a tangent, and sometimes it never makes it back. Sometimes they get redundent. Sometimes, I just feel there's nothing more to be said. When I start a thread, I want it to remain strong, and on point, but alas.......

dlowan- I think that in the US, the anger came at exactly the right time- in the 1960s. In that time, some of the legal inequities were rectified. Now that the playing field, if not even, is more equitable, IMO, we need to get to know people, one on one. I think that through familiarity, a lot of the anger and defensiveness will s-l-o-w-ly dissolve.

Is this the perfect way to go? Of course not. There will always be people who will hold irrational prejudices. Laying guilt trips will not improve the bigot's attitude, but may put off good hearted people who ARE happy and willing to get along.

I have long maintained that racism will be a dead issue only once the great mass of blacks are accorded in the heart what they have been accorded by law. To a man the white people I know fly right by the traditional black neighborhoods, secretly grateful for the separation. They will be friendly and accommodating on a one on one basis, but when it gets to the moment of truth they generally cop out. How to overcome racism on a national level, I don't know. I took the word of Floyd McKissick, a minister of a black church I attended in 1968: "Don't come in our neighborhoods to teach civil rights. We know about civil rights. Stay at home and teach the folks in your own neighborhoods." Took his words to heart. Every time I encounter racism in my daily life I move to counter it. I think that will be the way it all changes. By people working from within, not from big words handed out by well known personalities.