Whiteness Studies

Besides, being blind re immediate responses to athletic stance, skin color, apparent agility, delicacy of nose, hair type and style, muscle tone of various appendages, general heft, style of clothing, coolth of clothing, arrogance of demeanor, shyness of portrait.......

well, we are not blind, but frankly, I like people who are interesting. Do I get to do that as a choice?

Considering this. Maybe only the very small business person can pick uniquely interesting people among the qualifiers, such as they are. I don't know anything really about corporate hiring. By guess, I guess standard rules are almost as stultifying as they are helpful in weeding out trouble.

It isn't really my interest except that bunches of people might not be considered, and on the other end of it, the odd brilliant person might be missed.


Well, I guess the dot com places did pick for interest...and that may have been a real difference in hiring history.

I just noticed I was riffing off topic uncontrollably, apologies.

If my partner and I ever hired anybody, that person could draw, run errands, and with any luck, know more about the computer than we do. We don't care what that person looks like.

We wouldn't care if it was a him or her, minority or majority person. Minority up here would be someone from a tribal situation, fine with us. As to weight, I hired a very very large person years ago, and he did well.

I am sort of living in this question for my niece, as to what she is looking at in a hiring future. She will probably be all right, as she is more verbally equipped than most of her generation of whatever color or background. Still, I worry, and worry for her friends, who aren't as verbally equipped as she is.

Sssshhhhhh, osso.

osso-- I will peek into those threads. I agree that an interesting personality is far more worthwhile than an attractive package--and I agree with you that we miss great people when we (the general population) make rapid, surface judgments on appearance.

I just think the whole 'whiteness preference' issue is one part of a huge pecking order, and wanted to put it forward in the conversation.

To sofia, can't now remember why i wanted to find these for you, but they are interesting re looks, et al. The starter, which is long is http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3002
western gathering
and then there is, in philosophy and debate - http://able2know.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=43 Is physical appearance relevant

Lots of pros and cons re appearances, deep into the first topic, and all through the second.

Thanks, osso. I remember the issue of members' appearances. I will look in to see what you guys made of it. I assert that:
1) Looks should not matter in the least.
2) Looks actually matter to most people more than content of character, soul, or personality.
3) Really wonderful people suffer, and are done real harm in life due to #2.

Again, thanks. :wink:

Sofia- I have always had a problem with weight. When I was divorced, and in my 20s, I lost a lot of weight, and bleached my hair white blonde. (If you look at pictures of stars in the early 60's pale bleached blonde hair was all the rage.)

Anyhow, the difference in the reactions of people to me, especially men, was unbelievable. Guys who would have not given me a second look were slobbering all over me.

Was I happy about this? Nope. Actually, I became very angry and bitter. I thought to myself that I was still the same human being, and people were just reacting to my "shell". After a few months, I dyed my hair back to my natural color (I was still slender), and a lot of the slobbering stopped.

Being of Irish descent, skin color did not matter in dealing with the White Anglo Saxon Protestant, the most dangerous of wild animals in the human forest. Of course, the Angle-ish invented the term red-neck to describe the Irish peasant--although it now has connotations of oppressor rather than oppressed.

This should be White Anglo-Saxon Protestant studies--them boys and girls, and all who have aspired to be like them, are the source of the ills of which we all write in this thread.

Setanta- Interesting point. Apparently, the descendents of those folks on the Mayflower who came to the US to escape prejudice abroad, rose to the top of the social heap. Then then in turn, did to others what had been
done to them. Fascinating insight into human nature.

Setanta- I got this quote from a post of yours about female arousal. Do you realize that that remark (sure, you were only kidding :wink: ) discounts, and is prejudicial to 50% of the human race? The fact that it was meant as a joke, makes it even more insidious. If a woman reacts badly to this remark, she is an "uptight broad" and is not going along with the joke.

If similar remarks were made to other groups of people, there would be a noise that would be heard all over. But women are just supposed to smile sweetly and accept these barbs cloaked in humor.

I refuse to accept responsibility for the evil proclivities of wimmins . . .

Setanta-I have two words for you, and they ain't "Happy Birthday"!

(That damned thread is taking over the place, like a damned triffid! I didn't know it was Setanta's birthday?)

You know, the some Aboriginal people, looking at what happened after European invasion, say that the convicts etc that came over in the first fleet, and as a proportion of subsequent fleets, were damaged, wounded people - guards and prisoners alike.

I sometimes wonder if "your" early Puritan settlers were major, uptight, self-important pains in the bum, of whom a merrying England was heartily glad to be rid - (just as they were of our naughty convicts) - they certainly quickly set up a highly intolerant and rectitudinous society! Was not one of the firts acts of the officers of the brave new theocracy to banish Anne Hutchison?

sweetcomplication, I think sofia actually made a nice tie-in to the subject that I couldn't put into words in my post. The problem of institutional prejudice in the U.S.A. and a lot of other places, I might add, goes way beyond White vs. Black. Although this topic is specifically about Whiteness studies and White privilege, I think that it is appropriate to address the broader issues here regarding institutional prejudice.

I do think it is important for white people to acknowledge an unsavoury history in the U.S.A., but I think it is also important for everyone to realize that while there is still a long way to go, things are changing. I don't know if Canada is more of a melting pot than the U.S.A., but my banker is Black (I felt no sense of White privilege applying for a loan a couple months ago), my grocers are Korean, my clients are all the colours of the rainbow, and I can tell you, I experienced a firm sense of underlying racism towards me catering for both a traditional Indian family and a traditional Chinese family. Maybe I am naive, but in my world, I don't feel or see any sense of 'White privilege.' And love you back

dlowan, you need not wonder. The Puritans left England because they were hated and persecuted there....oh the irony, eh?

I dunno enough about Canada, Cav, but when a white person in the U.S. says that, I get mighty antsy. It's not always so clear-cut as noting that a more-qualified black person applied for the job you got, or whatever. It's the fact that security guards DON'T trail you when you shop at a nice store, that you can drive through a white neighborhood WITHOUT being pulled over for "speeding", that a business acquaintance DOESN'T earnestly praise you for how articulate you are (when you're just speaking normally.) A lot of white privelege (and it SO exists) is just being exempt from the everyday crap that others have to deal with.

The statement really was one more of pure empirical observation on my part here, not a political statement. I have been followed by security in plenty of places, mostly for dressing down, really, which to me equates to 'poor' prejudice (it doesn't matter if you are poor or not, but if you look poor you must be here to steal), I don't drive, so I can't comment on that, and many people have commented on how articulate I am, when just speaking normally Either that or "what the f--- are you talking about" (but I know what you are getting at there). I think white privilege totally exists, just not in my social strata, which I think is important to consider. We should know who we are going after before trying to answer the question.