In the End Im Saved and Youre Not?

GOD (whoever she/he is) does not condone chopping anyone's hand off - nor would she/he condone similar crimes - that i am sure of .
if indeed god wants to mete out punishment , she/he will do it personally .
i do not believe that god has given anyone the right to carry out criminal acts - and chopping off someone's hand is a criminal act - nothing else .
anyone carrying out such crime "in the name of god" , will be severely punished by god , i'm sure .
hbg

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echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:
echi wrote:
Raul-7 wrote:
That's why we as people shouldn't judge other people's faith - leave that up to God.

Exactly.

That's why we shouldn't chop anyone's hands off or stone anyone to death.
Instead, you should work on removing the plank from your own eye.

So, let's do away with all punishments. Is this what you are proposing?

echi wrote:
A thief should be made to repay what he stole.

Good Point.

echi wrote:
A violent offender should be separated from other people.

At whose cost? On whose dime?

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squinney wrote:

Does a child that is whipped and punished harshly for a minor crime love his father? Does a child that fears his father love him? I don't think so. My Dad had a horrible temper when we were growing up. (He's softened with age). We all ran to our rooms and looked busy when we heard him pull into the driveway.

LOL! How can you look to child for the meaning of love. A child will "love" anyone who allows him or her to have their way.

squinney wrote:

If your father whipped you before he left for work and said "I'm going to work. I know it's a teacher work day and you'll be home and tempted to steal a cookie from the cookie jar so I'm spanking you now for that crime," aren't you going to go ahead and take the cookie after he leaves since you've already been punished?

LOL! Your father is a lunatic. Who punishes people before they commit the crime? Oh, we almost forgot, you should not have a problem with that. What is wrong with preemptive punishments? Is'nt that in your laws? Your father actually did you a favor; he gave you great practice for today. He was preparing you and you did not even know it. LOL!

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hamburger wrote:

GOD (whoever she/he is) does not condone chopping anyone's hand off - nor would she/he condone similar crimes - that i am sure of .

How do you know if you do not know who or what God is?

hamburger wrote:

if indeed god wants to mete out punishment , she/he will do it personally .

He does.

hamburger wrote:

i do not believe that god has given anyone the right to carry out criminal acts - and chopping off someone's hand is a criminal act - nothing else .

Once again, how do you know?

hamburger wrote:

anyone carrying out such crime "in the name of god" , will be severely punished by god , i'm sure .
hbg

Not if God does not think that it is a crime.

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any god who allows her/his subjects to chop off someone's else's hand , certainly is not a god i would care to worship .
hbg

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hamburger wrote:

any god who allows her/his subjects to chop off someone's else's hand , certainly is not a god i would care to worship .
hbg

Well then you will suffer the same fate of your choice, like it or not there is only one God and questioning his mercifulness is going beyond His set limits. He is your Creator, and to Him you will return.

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that is a choice i have made .

of course , if you think , chopping someone's hand off is a noble act , that is a choice you have made .
hbg

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Mindonfire - What the hell are you talking about? I was addressing what Raul said.

Rolling Eyes

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hamburger wrote:

that is a choice i have made .

of course , if you think , chopping someone's hand off is a noble act , that is a choice you have made .
hbg

No, it's not noble but it helps purify society. The current justice is pretty much useless, everyone who ends up in jail and gets out ends up going back to their old ways. What's the solution.

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Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
A violent offender should be separated from other people.

At whose cost? On whose dime?

How is that a relevant question?

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hamburger wrote:

that is a choice i have made .

of course , if you think , chopping someone's hand off is a noble act , that is a choice you have made .
hbg

He's a muslim. To him, physical mutilation would barely count as a mild social deviance.

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echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
A violent offender should be separated from other people.

At whose cost? On whose dime?

How is that a relevant question?

How is it not a relevant question? Do you punish people for crimes which they have not comitted? Maybe One should be careful asking you all that question. From some of your recent laws, many of you believe so.

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Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
A violent offender should be separated from other people.

At whose cost? On whose dime?

How is that a relevant question?

How is it not a relevant question? Do you punish people for crimes which they have not comitted? Maybe One should be careful asking you all that question. From some of your recent laws, many of you believe so.

Maybe you should practice answering the question you are asked.

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echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:
echi wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
A violent offender should be separated from other people.

At whose cost? On whose dime?

How is that a relevant question?

How is it not a relevant question? Do you punish people for crimes which they have not comitted? Maybe One should be careful asking you all that question. From some of your recent laws, many of you believe so.

Maybe you should practice answering the question you are asked.

Did we not just finish a whole discussion about how religion and governemt are the same?

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Any other law abiding ward of the state (other than minors) are required to earn any benefits received. Prisoners should be required to do the same or if they are financially able.....pay.

To be fair...... as humanly possible. I think maybe.

Years ago the states did require work from the prisoners.

Of course, putting criminals behind bars fits into the service part of "protect and serve" of law enforcement and locking away criminals is also seen as a service to the communities and it's law abiding citizens.

Maybe a bit of both? i dunno

Would you see paying a yearly tax to keep violent criminals off the streets of your neighborhood as a punishment. Got kids?

How about paying out some money in order to be informed of child predators living in your area?

Punishment or benefit?

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Theives wouldnt be able to steal without hands and sex criminals wouldnt be able to do what they do without their private part.

Sounds like fair punishment to me.

I dont think chopping off a hand is allowed in the case of stealing food to feed a hungry family etc.

This is my view, I dont know the exact law on this from an Islamic perspective though.

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Abid wrote:

Theives wouldnt be able to steal without hands and sex criminals wouldnt be able to do what they do without their private part.

Sounds like fair punishment to me.

I dont think chopping off a hand is allowed in the case of stealing food to feed a hungry family etc.

This is my view, I dont know the exact law on this from an Islamic perspective though.

One can agree with that. That sounds sensible and fair.

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I bet the crime rates are alot lower in those areas.

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Abid wrote:

Theives wouldnt be able to steal without hands and sex criminals wouldnt be able to do what they do without their private part.

Sounds like fair punishment to me.

I dont think chopping off a hand is allowed in the case of stealing food to feed a hungry family etc.

This is my view, I dont know the exact law on this from an Islamic perspective though.

You're right. Ummar ibn il Khatab (RA) refused to punish a theif for stealing food because he was starving and there was a drought at the time. Lieniency is given for such cases when stealing comes out of hunger or basic needs.

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Raul-7 wrote:

Abid wrote:
Theives wouldnt be able to steal without hands and sex criminals wouldnt be able to do what they do without their private part.

Sounds like fair punishment to me.

I dont think chopping off a hand is allowed in the case of stealing food to feed a hungry family etc.

This is my view, I dont know the exact law on this from an Islamic perspective though.

You're right. Ummar ibn il Khatab (RA) refused to punish a theif for stealing food because he was starving and there was a drought at the time. Lieniency is given for such cases when stealing comes out of hunger or basic needs.

Sounds reasonable.

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