Is marriage for religious purposes only?

maporsche wrote:

real life wrote:

timberlandko wrote:

The difference between rl's argument and science is that science is based on evidence and is the product of minds given to seeking, developing, testing, and confirmining rational answers to complex questions through the gathering, assessing, comparing, refining, and correllating of that evidence. rl' and crew come at it from "This fairytale makes me feel good about myself, so science is bunk". That, however sincerely it may be held and professed, amounts to institutionalized ignorance.

OK so what EVIDENCE (besides your circular argument already stated) do you have that tying down adult humans for EXTRA YEARS of child nuturing provided them with a 'survival advantage' ?

No evidence of a 'survival advantage' to the adults from prolonged nurturing of their young? Oh yeah 'Evolution works in mysterious ways.'

Just because we don't have any evidence of a 'survival advantage', or know how evolution works, we just know it MUST HAVE happened, right?

Strength in numbers.

Diversity of thought.

Passing down knowledge.

Helping hands.

A much longer period of nurturing into adulthood means that it takes much longer to accomplish each of these actions that you have mentioned. Why would delaying any of these be a 'survival advantage' ?

maporsche wrote:

It is well shown in biolgoy that the smarter the animal the more involvement there is from the parents and for longer periods of time. Check out dolphins, apes, etc.

Is it really?

Where is it 'well shown' ?

Aren't there animals that are quite intelligent, but have a fairly short period of time to maturity? Pigs and dogs, for instance.

Dolphins and porpoises , while supposedly close relatives, seem to have significant differences in the length of time it takes them to mature.

How is the longer period a 'survival advantage' ?

maporsche wrote:

Knowlege is the greatest evolutionary advantage.

Is it? A lion can tear a human to pieces and he doesn't have to be very bright, just fast and strong.

hephzibah wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Mindonfire, I see your point because a month or so ago I might have actually agreed with you to a certain extent. However, beside the legalities involved in being married there really is no point except the ritual side of it. But really even that doesn't equal up to two cents if the people making the vows have no intentions on following through. So... again... no point. :wink:

Now, ask yourself, if there is really no point to marriage, then why is it so badly coveted by homosexuals? If it is no point to it then no one should want it. People don't seek or fight for pointless things.

I have no doubt that every "social group" in this country would like to have the same "status" as every other "social group" within the society they are surrounded by. So what are homosexuals fighting for? The right for their lifestyle to be seen as acceptable within a nation that proclaims to be primarily "christian". Not marriage.

Some are probably fighting for what you're talking about.

Others want the protections that are granted through marriage.

Others want to confess/display their love for their partner to their loved ones in an antiquated ceremony to fulfill a deep seeded need.

Others would like to turn every child into a homosexual and bring hell on earth so that all of us may worship Satan and engage in anal sex with children and animals while jabbing a crucifix into our eyes while taking the lords name in vain.

This is a list I found on the net about the 10 smartest animals. I then looked up at what age they reached sexual maturity and what their average lifespan is in the wild (which I though would be relevant to this discussion).

The Pig is truly the exception, they reach sexual maturity much quicker than the the others listed here. It is interesting that they are also only animal listed that are primarlily solitary animals (most all males are solitary, some females do form groups when pregnant). That leads me to believe that the longer the maturing process, the tighter the bonds are in that family group.

Chimpanzee (6/40)
Gorilla (6/40)
Orangutan (15/35)
Baboon (5/20)
Gibbon (8/30)
Macaques monkey (3/26)
Killer Whale (10/40)
Dolphin (5/25)
Elephant (14/70)
Pig (1/15)

Human (12/78)


Searches for age/maturity were done on www.msn.com with key words like "baboon sexual maturity" & "baboon average life span wild".

maporsche wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

hephzibah wrote:

Mindonfire, I see your point because a month or so ago I might have actually agreed with you to a certain extent. However, beside the legalities involved in being married there really is no point except the ritual side of it. But really even that doesn't equal up to two cents if the people making the vows have no intentions on following through. So... again... no point. :wink:

Now, ask yourself, if there is really no point to marriage, then why is it so badly coveted by homosexuals? If it is no point to it then no one should want it. People don't seek or fight for pointless things.

I have no doubt that every "social group" in this country would like to have the same "status" as every other "social group" within the society they are surrounded by. So what are homosexuals fighting for? The right for their lifestyle to be seen as acceptable within a nation that proclaims to be primarily "christian". Not marriage.

Some are probably fighting for what you're talking about.

Others want the protections that are granted through marriage.

Others want to confess/display their love for their partner to their loved ones in an antiquated ceremony to fulfill a deep seeded need.

Others would like to turn every child into a homosexual and bring hell on earth so that all of us may worship Satan and engage in anal sex with children and animals while jabbing a crucifix into our eyes while taking the lords name in vain.

Protections granted from marriage?

Bwaaaaaa hahaha!

You've gotta stop. You're killing me here.

maporsche wrote:

This is a list I found on the net about the 10 smartest animals. I then looked up at what age they reached sexual maturity and what their average lifespan is in the wild (which I though would be relevant to this discussion).

The Pig is truly the exception, they reach sexual maturity much quicker than the the others listed here. It is interesting that they are also only animal listed that are primarlily solitary animals (most all males are solitary, some females do form groups when pregnant). That leads me to believe that the longer the maturing process, the tighter the bonds are in that family group.

Chimpanzee (6/40)
Gorilla (6/40)
Orangutan (15/35)
Baboon (5/20)
Gibbon (8/30)
Macaques monkey (3/26)
Killer Whale (10/40)
Dolphin (5/25)
Elephant (14/70)
Pig (1/15)

Human (12/78)


Searches for age/maturity were done on www.msn.com with key words like "baboon sexual maturity" & "baboon average life span wild".

Interesting that chimps, which are supposedly man's closest evolutionary relative, have a much shorter nurturing period than orangutans, which are supposedly a more distant evolutionary cousin.

But it's not just sexual maturity we are talking about. Humans do not complete the nurturing process ( i.e. achieve self sufficiency and establish their own households) when they are 12, do they?

So the figure for humans needs to be bumped significantly higher.

Again, how does DELAYING the ability to be self sufficient translate into a 'survival advantage' ?

Should we take this principle into our schools, and delay the learning process with the intent of having much more self sufficient adults when they are finally done with being nurtured , say, at age 30?

Do humans who live on mommas apron strings til they are 30 strike you as having an advantage?

Do you think they would have in a more primitive human society?

In primitive human societies, human lifespan is thought to have been MUCH shorter, so lengthening the nurturing period would have had a much more dramatic negative impact than it does even now, wouldn't it?