Tipping Etiquette

ehBeth, Good q. Some years ago, it was unheard of to tip in Japan. With the tourism in Japan from the west increasing, they have learned to "accept" tips.

Before my trip to Israel last month, I read that the tips ranged from 10 to 12 percent. I followed that rule most of the time, but gave something closer to 15% on our last dinner at a fishfood restaurant where we agreed the food was exceptional, and the waitress attentive to our needs.

0 Replies

ebrown_p wrote:

old europe wrote:
ebrown_p wrote:
It also means that your food is less expensive than if restaurants paid their employees more.

That's all potatoes to me if the tip is quasi-mandatory.

If the the minimum wages were to be raised and the food would be more expensive and you'd in turn tip 0-10% instead of 10-20%, how would the higher prices for your food affect you?

I am not sure if I understand your question. It seems you are making the same point I am.

My point is that you shouldn't screw the server.

Either you should pay higher prices for food (and make sure this money is passed on to the waitstaff) or you should happily pay tips. You are talking about "minimum wage" here which I don't think is strictly relevant. This should be true even for higher end restaurants where deserving servers have more responsibility to make higher than minimum wage.

To get cheaper food without paying tips is taking money out of the employees pockets. That just isn't fair.

ebrown, I somehow read your statement as a point in favor of low minimum wages -> lower prices for food -> compensation of servers via tips.

If your only point was that you shouldn't screw the server, I'm totally with you.

0 Replies

Mame wrote:

It makes a difference, too, if the bill is mostly alcohol!

Here's another question re tipping and alcohol:

Do you tip when you get a drink at a bar? Supposedly, you never tip a bartender - you buy him a drink instead. Is this true in the States/Canada?

0 Replies

ehBeth wrote:

jpinMilwaukee wrote:
Plus, a minimum wage, despite nimhs claims of it being a straw man argument, takes away incemtive for servers to provide good service and takes money out of good servers pockets.

how do you explain superb service in countries where there is a minimum wage?

I don't. I've never eaten anywhere that I was waited on and not expected provide a tip. What countries are you talking about?

0 Replies

old europe wrote:

Mame wrote:
It makes a difference, too, if the bill is mostly alcohol!

Here's another question re tipping and alcohol:

Do you tip when you get a drink at a bar? Supposedly, you never tip a bartender - you buy him a drink instead. Is this true in the States/Canada?

No, you give a tip, but it's not necessarily the same as food - not 20%, I mean. If you have an $8 drink, you're also paying 10% liquour tax plus the other taxes, so it brings it up to over $9.00 already so I'd give $1.00 or more to round it up.

If you ordered a $30 bottle of wine, I'd probably give $5.00.

We don't generally buy drinks for bartenders here - it's a European thing.

We usually tip on every drink unless you run a tab, and then you just estimate.... I'd say about 10 - 15%.

0 Replies

Another thing you can do is if you had a bad drink or bad food item - if they take it off the bill without me asking, I always give them the price of it or some portion of it on top of the usual tip in appreciation and as an incentive for them to do it again.

0 Replies

Mame wrote:

Having been a waitress myself, I think $8.00 and whatever tips you get, is more than adequate for what they do. What do they do? They smile at you, bring you menus and water, take your order, bring you your food, supply with you odds and sods, then present you with your bill. It's not rocket science. It's a service job, like someone doing your cleaning or mowing your lawn. Here in North America, there is no apprenticeship for such positions because they don't take a lot of brains. Good "people-people" excel; bad ones don't get tipped or they get fired.

If you really felt like your job waitressing was no more difficult than mowing lawns, I'd venture to suggest you weren't a very good waitress...Either that or you worked at a restaurant that was never very busy. (Or perhaps Canadians are just very easy to wait on.)

0 Replies

when we were in santiago de chile for three days before going on our cruise , we had a pleasant surprise .
we had a very nice lunch at the hotel we styed at . when i asked the waitress if i could charge our bill to our room , she told me that she always sugested to her customers to charge to their room because the 20% sales tax would be subtracted from the bill (the tax was included in the price listed , much as it is done in europe ).
of course , i gave an extra good tip !
and yes , when we received the final bill after three days , the 20% had been deducted - that's what i call good service .

when we stayed in lugano/switzerland three years ago , we stayed in a small but excellent hotel for a week .
a great breakfast was included in the daily hotel price (btw in addition to the regular breakfast fare , there were about a dozen different cakes , tortes and pastries on the buffett - apparently the swiss have a sweet tooth - even for breakfast).
the waitresses looked looked after the beverages , brought food from the buffet to the table if asked ; in all a first class service . since waitresses were not assigned to a specific table . we weren't sure who should get the tip . we did not see any of the swiss guests leaving a tip - what is the right thing to do about tipping ?
so we asked a swiss businessman . he told us that on the last day of stay it was customary to give a tip to the head waitress . she would look after the proper distribution of the money . so on our last morning i used my few words of italian to express our thanks for the outstanding service to the head-waitress and gave her the equivalent of about $20 . she thanked me and put the money in a cash box hidden behind the counter .
the interesting thing was that even though we did not have an assigned waitress and we did not give a tip directly , it was probably the best service we ever had . the coffee and chocolate pots were always filled without having to ask , the best and freshest food was on the buffet and on our tables .
obviously , those ladies must have enjoyed their jobs - always a smile on their faces - , but i assume that they must have also have received fair salary to make it worth their while to put in the extra effort - and they probably realized that good tips were coming their way .
we sure found that a very pleasant experience !
hbg

0 Replies

hbg, Thanks for sharing that story about Switzerland; I must remember that if I ever stay in that country. As for Chile, the same thing happened to us; the waitress told us it was better to charge the room for restaurant charges, because the tax would be refunded. There are so many things we are unaware of when we travel to other countries, it gets too numerous trying to remember all the different ways we can be confused.

0 Replies

Most European waitresses are paid well, plus there is always a 15 %
gratuity built into the meal price (read the fine print on the menu).
Additionally, good waitresses get a nice tip on top of it, but it is not expected.

0 Replies

cyphercat wrote:

Reyn wrote:

I've been accused of being cheap (in an indirect way), but rest assured, I'm sympathetic to those who are paid low wages.

Aw, Reyn! You know I love you, I was just joshin'. I should have been clearer that I was joking and totally understand your p.o.v.

My comment was directed at others, but I confused the issue by quoting you. Sorry.

Quote:

I think without that incentive, quality of service in restaurants would go way down, because it really is a particularly hard job; customers are more demanding in that situation than in other service jobs (in my experience, both as a customer and as a worker).

I disagree. Try being a meter reader (a service job) and having a customer "accidently" letting their Rottweiler out while you're in the yard reading their meters.

Chai Tea wrote:

I dunno, you may ask why I'd leave a tip in a relatively clean room because someone else left a disgusting mess....I guess in the big cosmic wheel of life, it all evens out. Karma I guess. We all get it back sooner or later.

Believe it or not, I actually accept that as a valid reason for tipping. It's a better one than the other ones that I've read.

jpinMilwaukee wrote:

People who work for tips, in general, take more pride in their work because they know if they don't, they don't get paid.

Sorry, I can't agree with that. One either takes pride in their work, or they don't. Sure, dangling bonuses in front of folks can't hurt, but it comes down to how one views their working life.

If one comes to work miserable every morning, you're not going to have a very good day. With my former job, it was a matter of philosophy that kept me going from day to day. That, and knowing that I had a wife and kids that depended on me.

Mame wrote:

Tips may be expected, but they are not mandatory. You speak as if a tip is OWED. ........etc

Excellent post, Mame.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

All over Europe (well, mostly at least) your restaurant bill shows the line: "Service and taxes included".

That at least makes some sense that a restaurant customer is being billed for his meal and the service on the restaurant's bill itself. That way, it's not somehow hidden. Hopefully, the employer doesn't cheat his employees out of some of the service money.

flushd wrote:

What a con, to go around calling people 'cheap' because they do not do as you do or as you like.

Thank you. You can rant anytime you like. :wink:

old europe wrote:

On the other hand, if you're really always giving a tip and it's your opinion that everybody should do so, then I don't understand your problem with the idea to raise the minimum wages for waiters/waitresses. You'd still be paying the same amount of money, tip included.

Good point!

Mame wrote:

I've got an incentive for servers to provide good service:

Do your job or you're fired. Isn't part of the job to give prompt service with a good attitude?

Why is this the only industry where a patron is expected to give a tip in order to get good service? Why should you have to? Do you tip your shoe repair man to ensure your shoes are fixed properly? Why not tip your dry cleaner to ensure your clothes are REALLY clean?

[Reyn nods]

0 Replies

How can a tip be "hidden," when you're the one choosing the amount? What am I missing here? Tips in restaurants are "common practice." If you're not aware of tipping, you haven't been paying attention.

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

How can a tip be "hidden," when you're the one choosing the amount? What am I missing here? Tips in restaurants are "common practice." If you're not aware of tipping, you haven't been paying attention.

You misunderstood my post.

The point I was trying to make was in regards to what Walter was saying, and that was the fact that, in his example, that the total bill breaks down the cost into food and service. In other words, the service (tip) is not hidden. In other words, you know how much is included in the total amount.

0 Replies

Sorry, Reyn, I certainly did misread your post.

0 Replies

As Walter said, in Italy there is a "pane e coperto", or at least there was when I was last there, a minimal charge for bread, sort of a table cover charge. It used to be something like 2000 lire, not much. And then there was a "servizio", which I remember as 15%, but might have sometimes been less. You could leave another few thousand lire more if you wanted, a bit of change, really.

My impression of the wait staff there was very good; perhaps some did get cheated by employers, but if so, it didn't show..

I have an unusual bias about getting asked how everything is several - maybe five or six - times a meal, particularly if I am in conversation or have my mouth full. The wait staff there in Italy don't do that, in my experience - they keep an eye on you from the side and if you seem to need something then they'll come over. So, there isn't all this happy foo foo going on there like it does here in the US - that is at its most pesky, a result of the effort for tips, as well as probably a directive from management. It must be a strain for at least some waiters.

0 Replies

cyphercat wrote:

Mame wrote:
Having been a waitress myself, I think $8.00 and whatever tips you get, is more than adequate for what they do. What do they do? They smile at you, bring you menus and water, take your order, bring you your food, supply with you odds and sods, then present you with your bill. It's not rocket science. It's a service job, like someone doing your cleaning or mowing your lawn. Here in North America, there is no apprenticeship for such positions because they don't take a lot of brains. Good "people-people" excel; bad ones don't get tipped or they get fired.

If you really felt like your job waitressing was no more difficult than mowing lawns, I'd venture to suggest you weren't a very good waitress...Either that or you worked at a restaurant that was never very busy. (Or perhaps Canadians are just very easy to wait on.)

Where did I say it was no more difficult? I said it was a service job LIKE mowing lawns (is) - ie, you are there to perform a basic function - bring someone their eggs and ham... but speaking of difficult, yas a waitress, you are not required to compute, calculate, answer difficult questions, teach anything to anyone, or operate on a brain. You are only required to be polite, cheerful, and make sure they got the right order. It's not worth more than $8.00/hour + tips. I don't even know if it's worth that.

As a babysitter you'd get what - $5 an hour now? That's harder than waitressing, at times, surely, and you're actually responsible for another human being, a dependent one. How is that not worth more than bringing someone a plate of food? Get the difference?

The rest of your comments are similar in vein to jpinmilwaukee's - ill-informed assumptions.

0 Replies

CalamityJane wrote:

Most European waitresses are paid well, plus there is always a 15 %
gratuity built into the meal price (read the fine print on the menu).
Additionally, good waitresses get a nice tip on top of it, but it is not expected.

That's what I tried to explain with a couple of response.

Reyn wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
All over Europe (well, mostly at least) your restaurant bill shows the line: "Service and taxes included".

No, her/his name or number is always on that bill ... or it's all divided between all (that's when it works like hamburger mentioned about Switzerland).

0 Replies

ossobuco wrote:

I have an unusual bias about getting asked how everything is several - maybe five or six - times a meal, particularly if I am in conversation or have my mouth full. The wait staff there in Italy don't do that, in my experience - they keep an eye on you from the side and if you seem to need something then they'll come over. So, there isn't all this happy foo foo going on there like it does here in the US - that is at its most pesky, a result of the effort for tips, as well as probably a directive from management. It must be a strain for at least some waiters.

0 Replies

Mame wrote:

You are only required to be polite, cheerful, and make sure they got the right order.

I still say if you think that was all that was required of you, you weren't a very good server.

Quote:

The rest of your comments are similar in vein to jpinmilwaukee's - ill-informed assumptions.

I didn't assume anything, I gave some suggestions as to what else might explain why you seem to have had a particularly easy-peasey experience as a server. I really wasn't being sarcastic either, I thought perhaps you didn't work at a very busy restaurant-- also you mentioned that American tourists were the more difficult customers, and I was thinking perhaps it actually is easier to deal with customers in Canada, if people there really tend to be politer? Don't anyone jump on me for generalizing about Canadians, it's just a thought in response to it being noted that Americans are obnoxious to wait on.

0 Replies

ossobuco wrote:

I have an unusual bias about getting asked how everything is several - maybe five or six - times a meal, particularly if I am in conversation or have my mouth full. The wait staff there in Italy don't do that, in my experience - they keep an eye on you from the side and if you seem to need something then they'll come over. So, there isn't all this happy foo foo going on there like it does here in the US - that is at its most pesky, a result of the effort for tips, as well as probably a directive from management. It must be a strain for at least some waiters.

Who else has noticed the change in terminology lately (in the last year)? They used to ask "How is everything?", but now it's "How is everything tasting?". I think they got tired of being asked for extra napkins and water, which they should have provided at first without being asked.

I like to respond "OK, but my dove is slightly undercooked".

0 Replies

Tipping Etiquette

Quick Links

My Account

able2know