While I believe heph is telling the truth, I do not think magical causes need be implied to explain her situation.
Experiential evidence is limited in that it generally cannot be repeated, and there are always an unknown amount of unknown factors at play. In her situation, anyone that knew her may have organized the flood of charity in an innumerable amount of ways, employing the help of an unknown amount of people, those people not necessarily knowing heph personally. They may have not wanted to make her uncomfortable so they kept their charitable efforts from her. (but not of course, from the eyes of their all seeing keeper of scores)
My point; Experiential 'evidence' is merely blind interpretation of things only partially known...
..Unless, of course..it is repeatable..at which point you can start to break it down and see how it ticks.
Do you realize how incredibly orchestrated such an event would have to be? To have them say to someone, "Look, she's going to go for a walk down THIS street at 3pm I need you to be there and walk along like you're going somewhere and hand her this $60 and tell her the Lord told you to give it to her." 
) heph wrote:So... that is one theory of "christianity" that I personally tested and got results from. Real, tangible results that were completely unexplainable.
So what do you think of them apples?
I think them apples didn't fall of the christianity tree. On the tree of humanity christianity is but one branch.
The idea you are talking about reminds me of the concept of karma. By that I mean to say that the idea is one of human spirituality, not any one religion, since it is represented in all religions.
I will not speculate on reasons. Nor will I write it off to coincidence. It is, for the moment, inexplicable.
One interesting aspect of it, however, is the effect giving to charity has on the giver. By acting selflessly we are also unconsciously priming ourselves to believe that others are capable of selfless action. In my own experience, this tends to make me 'lower my guard' and as a result connect more easily with others.
Because I am wondering. During this period when you received this much needed attention on the economical front, can it be that you also received an increased amount of attention from those around you on all fronts?
That gives a lot of credit to something that is just a facet of the totality of what makes up humankind. I could argue that we have come so far in despite of these concepts being prevalent.
Thanks for believing me dok. LOL You're theories however crack me up sometimes! Very Happy Do you realize how incredibly orchestrated such an event would have to be? To have them say to someone, "Look, she's going to go for a walk down THIS street at 3pm I need you to be there and walk along like you're going somewhere and hand her this $60 and tell her the Lord told you to give it to her."
Come on man, we both know that MOST christians aren't even willing to put that much thought into something, let alone actually following through on something like that. (Nothing personal against anyone here, just generally speaking Confused)
Ok, I'm not talking about unicorns and dragons here dok. There really was nothing "magical" about it. It happened. The timing was precisely when I needed it. I've always attributed that to "God". Why? Because that is the "logical box" I chose to put it in. They said if I "tithed" God would provide. So I tithed and provisions came. It's the way the mind works.
Your point is wrong dok.
Experiential evidence isn't a blind interpretation of anything. If you touch a hot stove and burn yourself you learn through that experience it is not good to touch a hot stove. Plain and simple. Can it be repeated? Sometimes yes. Negative experiences such as the above tend to not be repeated simply because it was a negative experience. However, positive experiences can be repeated.
That is 100% repeatable. You can narrow down all the factors as to why a stove burns you, and how the mechanics work. However, your personal scenario is not repeatable, because of the unknown amount of unknown factors. All of them non-magical I would imagine.Heph,
Infinitely more probable and plausible than a magical entity appearing to someone, and further proceeding to instruct that someone to meet you at a certain place and time and give you money.
Humans make plans and carry them out. As far as we know, we are the only ones. To introduce magical beings or supernatural factors where none need be is to digress from rational conversation.
No argument there. But you seem pretty hot to convince others this event in your life is sure-fire proof of the theistic proposition. As the event in question can easily be explained in countless ways without employing the supernatural, I don't find it very convincing.
And what point might that be?
Your hot stove example only supports my point
As an aside...whether an experience is interpreted as 'positive' or 'negative' to the individual has nothing to do with the repeatability of that experience.
Doktor S wrote:Humans make plans and carry them out. As far as we know, we are the only ones. To introduce magical beings or supernatural factors where none need be is to digress from rational conversation.
Ok. At this point dok, you are the one introducing magical beings. :wink:
Doktor S wrote:No argument there. But you seem pretty hot to convince others this event in your life is sure-fire proof of the theistic proposition. As the event in question can easily be explained in countless ways without employing the supernatural, I don't find it very convincing.
LOL ya think dok? Really? Come on now. At what point in this conversation have I said, "Come on ya'll you gotta believe this is God right?" I've merely stated what I believe, and leave others to choose what they believe.
Doktor S wrote:And what point might that be?
The one below....
Doktor S wrote:Your hot stove example only supports my point
As an aside...whether an experience is interpreted as 'positive' or 'negative' to the individual has nothing to do with the repeatability of that experience.
Wrong. It has everything to do with it because we are able to think and make choices based on experiences. Will you ever be by a hot stove again in your life? Absolutely. Will you ever choose to put your hand on that hot stove after doing it once and burning yourself? Probably not.
hephzibah wrote:
Doktor S wrote:Humans make plans and carry them out. As far as we know, we are the only ones. To introduce magical beings or supernatural factors where none need be is to digress from rational conversation.
Ok. At this point dok, you are the one introducing magical beings. :wink:
I would hate to think you are being purposefully deceitful or dishonest here, or assuming the reader (me, I suppose) isn't paying attention. So, I will remind you that we are talking about your little 'god told me to give you this money' scenario, which you claim is a result of supernatural intervention caused by choosing to tithe at your church. The whole time I have been arguing that this could have very well happened through natural channels.
Doktor S wrote:No argument there. But you seem pretty hot to convince others this event in your life is sure-fire proof of the theistic proposition. As the event in question can easily be explained in countless ways without employing the supernatural, I don't find it very convincing.
Quote:LOL ya think dok? Really? Come on now. At what point in this conversation have I said, "Come on ya'll you gotta believe this is God right?" I've merely stated what I believe, and leave others to choose what they believe.
Not the point. You introduced this scenario as being a major factor in convincing you of of the theistic proposition.
I wouldn't blame you for doubting though. After all, it didn't happen to you. It seems completely unrealistic, and truthfully it is quite unrealistic to ask someone to believe something that seems so impossible.
Doktor S wrote:And what point might that be?
The one below....
Doktor S wrote:Your hot stove example only supports my point
As an aside...whether an experience is interpreted as 'positive' or 'negative' to the individual has nothing to do with the repeatability of that experience.
Wrong. It has everything to do with it because we are able to think and make choices based on experiences. Will you ever be by a hot stove again in your life? Absolutely. Will you ever choose to put your hand on that hot stove after doing it once and burning yourself? Probably not.
Perhaps you are involved in too many threads and have temporarily forgotten what we are talking about? Whether or not someone will repeat something, for whatever reasons, is absolutely irrelevant to whether or not that something can be repeated. You have diverted from arguing against my point, which was experiential 'evidence' proves nothing if it isn't repeatable because of the unknown amount of unknown factors at play, to arguing something else entirely.
