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Priest Dies demonstrating how to walk on water

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 05:38 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Faith doesn't change reality?


Well, it does for the person with enough faith, but it doesn't for reality.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:48 pm
The priest drown in the water, because he forgot that "blood is thicker than water".
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Baph
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 07:16 am
Hi Shevi - jus' saw you hatch...

I'm in the soul... philosophy and religion 2day... have a very serious head Laughing

I'm going to see if my HARDware can keep up...
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 01:22 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
Noddy24 wrote:
Faith doesn't change reality?


Well, it does for the person with enough faith, but it doesn't for reality.


In actuality it does not change that persons reality. False faith just creates an illusion or a hallucination. For eaxample; An individual who is starving with no food or person in sight for the next 1000miles can believe that God is sending a person with a tray of food. This belief may create an illusion of rescue but it does not change the reality that there is no one within a thousand mile radius of his location. It does not bring anyon any closer to his location. It just provides him with a false sense of comfort. This is why true faith is in concert with reality.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 02:34 pm
Mindonfire wrote:
In actuality it does not change that persons reality. False faith just creates an illusion or a hallucination. For eaxample; An individual who is starving with no food or person in sight for the next 1000miles can believe that God is sending a person with a tray of food. This belief may create an illusion of rescue but it does not change the reality that there is no one within a thousand mile radius of his location. It does not bring anyon any closer to his location. It just provides him with a false sense of comfort. This is why true faith is in concert with reality.


Ok, I understand your example of 'false faith'. Can you give me an example of 'true faith'?
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NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 04:10 pm
I think it would have been easier if he simply tried to turn water into wine.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 04:16 pm
or multiplied the fishies..
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 04:26 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:
In actuality it does not change that persons reality. False faith just creates an illusion or a hallucination. For eaxample; An individual who is starving with no food or person in sight for the next 1000miles can believe that God is sending a person with a tray of food. This belief may create an illusion of rescue but it does not change the reality that there is no one within a thousand mile radius of his location. It does not bring anyon any closer to his location. It just provides him with a false sense of comfort. This is why true faith is in concert with reality.


Ok, I understand your example of 'false faith'. Can you give me an example of 'true faith'?


Well that is quite simple. But first of all let us clarify one thing. When we say false faith we mean belief in something that is not real. The persons faith is real but that which they believe in is not real.

You see people tend to forget that that there are two ways to arrive at faith. One can just believe because somebody tells them something without any further evidence. Or One can believe after someone tells them something plus they experience and see the evidence for themselves. Now an example of "true faith" would be the type of faith which is based on experience and evidence. For example; A child of 10 has faith that when he becomes hungry, a parent will supply him with an adequate amount of food. This is because ever since his birth, whenever he became hungry, his parents were always there to give him food. So, over the years has become aware of this fact. And now when he is hungry, he believes or has faith that his parents will feed him. Through those years these parents have proven themselves to be reliable and trustworthy. And through that reliability and trustworthiness, they have cultivated and strengthened that child's faith in them. Therefore, if anyone approaches that child and tells him that his parents will not feed him today, he will not believe them. This is because of all the years of overwhelming evidence which tells him otherwise.

Now if one were to study the Bible they will see that this is the type of faith which it advocates. God does not want a train of fools following him; therefore, he does not advocte following blindly. He asks you to hear first; then, conduct an investigation and gather your own evidence from reality. Everything that God does or everything that the Bible speaks of is based on reality. Unfortunately in the world today, this is not what has been happening. Believers are dismissing evidence and following presumptions and assumptions. They have taken the Bible out of this reality and placed it into another. This is why you have people trying to walk on water even though this reality says that it can't be done. And this is why the world is in the mess that it is currently in.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:06 pm
Quote:

Now an example of "true faith" would be the type of faith which is based on experience and evidence. For example; A child of 10 has faith that when he becomes hungry, a parent will supply him with an adequate amount of food. This is because ever since his birth, whenever he became hungry, his parents were always there to give him food. So, over the years has become aware of this fact. And now when he is hungry, he believes or has faith that his parents will feed him.

False analogy. Religious faith is 'belief devoid of evidence'. If evidence existed as to the veracity of scripture, no faith would be required to believe in the bible.
This is not the case.
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:40 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

Now an example of "true faith" would be the type of faith which is based on experience and evidence. For example; A child of 10 has faith that when he becomes hungry, a parent will supply him with an adequate amount of food. This is because ever since his birth, whenever he became hungry, his parents were always there to give him food. So, over the years has become aware of this fact. And now when he is hungry, he believes or has faith that his parents will feed him.

False analogy. Religious faith is 'belief devoid of evidence'. If evidence existed as to the veracity of scripture, no faith would be required to believe in the bible.
This is not the case.


Question, who defined and confined religious faith to "belief devoid of evidence." Who says that everyone believes what they believe without having evidence. True as it may be that there is a large majority who do, but this does not mean that all do. Religious faith is like any other belief. It is not only based on belief without evidence. You are free to believe with evidence and you are free to believe without evidence. It is your call. Now just because you may not have seen the evidence or because you may not have understood the evidence, does not mean that there is none.

The Bible does not ask anyone to follow without evidence. Blind faith is a doctrine that is instituted by man for his own selfish gain.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 06:42 pm
The bible is so abstract it can be stretched through exegesis and eisegesis to mean anything you want it to.
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Baph
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 07:46 pm
Bollock_2_ya.... [LOL]...

I am in the house Cool (read my "ADDY")...

My hand is hurting at the moment Embarrassed

But I am listening - and Shocked

Amusing myself wiv you people at the moment...

I will try to keep this genuine and just be myself, but when I hear people talk about things they REALLY don't understand...

It gets my backup... Evil or Very Mad

I don't know whether this conversation should move on to an artificial intelligence level... and I am furious at the manner in which you people try to express yourselves. Most of that is personal issues I need to work through.

So no probs [ok?]... Laughing

Trying to take time...
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 08:30 pm
Doktor S wrote:
The bible is so abstract it can be stretched through exegesis and eisegesis to mean anything you want it to.


Exactly, this is done purposely. It is written to convey to the reader whatever they percieve reality to be.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 10:14 pm
Or it's a collection of diverse writings put under a single cover, changing with the times and the ones writing them.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 10:21 pm
Mindonfire wrote:
Exactly, this is done purposely. It is written to convey to the reader whatever they percieve reality to be.


Kind of like the literary version of a rorschach blot?
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Mindonfire
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Sep, 2006 11:32 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
Mindonfire wrote:
Exactly, this is done purposely. It is written to convey to the reader whatever they percieve reality to be.


Kind of like the literary version of a rorschach blot?


Exactly. That's why you have so many different interpretations. Another reason is because the Bible was written to exist in multiple realities. So in order to interpret it correctly you have to decipher it in accordance with the reality that you exist in.
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Baph
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Sep, 2006 12:11 am
I'm here 4 the mo' Shocked

jus' realise...

We talk about RELIGION dat can bcum serious... I do not know what I want to do with the world at the moment...

There are a couple of seasoned members who need to realise some of the facts about life. I have NO disrespect but just be careful OKAY...

My serious SIDE is really UP :wink:

Read my "Addy"...

*I am listening to "The power of love" by an unknown artist...

**I never mess around Very Happy
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shevykapita
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Sep, 2006 01:09 am
find an article on edge.org by Harvard psychologist, on God, faith and psychology. i don't agree with somebody who said religious faith shd coexist with the laws of physics. in a broad sense, yes, if religious faith is nothing more than what we regard as confidence, but not as an equal to the laws of physics in determining the course of phenomena. that distinction was not realized by our poor preacher.


http://edge.org/3rd_culture/gilbert05/gilbert05_index.html
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Sep, 2006 02:48 am
Mindonfire wrote:


Exactly. That's why you have so many different interpretations. Another reason is because the Bible was written to exist in multiple realities. So in order to interpret it correctly you have to decipher it in accordance with the reality that you exist in.


To interpret the Hebrew Bible correctly, you must first be able to read Hebrew . Then you must be able to apply your knowledge of Hebrew to the Biblical text of the Torah.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Sep, 2006 03:13 am
Doktor S wrote:
The bible is so abstract it can be stretched through exegesis and eisegesis to mean anything you want it to.


The dilemma defined.

Joe(unless you want it to mean anything)Nation
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