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Catholics are as perverted as any religion

 
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 11:16 pm
neologist wrote:
Eorl wrote:
Yes, The Witnesses are especially insular when it comes to self protection. It's all really quite Darwinian. Churches that have the techniques for survival do, and those that don't....don't.
I'm sure you would be welcome to spy on us.


Don't need to, got a family packed wiv' em. Wink
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Aug, 2006 11:45 pm
In point of fact, inapropriate sexual behavior perpetrated by Catholic Priests upon minors, and efforts of superiors to sweep it under the rug, are well documented - as being no more, and quite probably less, prevalent than similar misconduct on the part of Protestant clergy. Additionally, non-clergy church employees, predominantly of Protestant affilliation, are far more likely than clergy, Catholic or Protestant, to engage in child abuse in church or school setting. Finally, there is a satistically very significant greater probability, strikingly so, of a child being the victim of abuse for which the responsible party is an employee of the public school attended by that child than of a child being so victimized by clergy or in any other church-related setting. Jeremiah's proposition, in its particular focus on the Catholic Church, is nothing other than ignorant, prejudiced, bigotted bullshit.


Quote:
Abuse 'not simply a church problem'
April 16, 2002 Posted: 10:48 AM EDT (1448 GMT)

By Thurston Hatcher
CNN

(CNN) -- Experts emphasize that the problem is hardly unique to or more prevalent among priests.

"People are saying there must be something basically wrong with the church, but if you look at it from a broader perspective, this is not simply a church problem or a priest problem," said Stephen Rossetti, a psychologist. "This is a societal problem, and priests are no more likely to be involved."

Fred Berlin, director of the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma, said he's not aware of any evidence that the problem occurs more often in the church than in other segments of society.

"It's just a tragic problem that's been around for years in all aspects of society," said Berlin, an associate professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University.

Rossetti cited statistics suggesting that about 0.8 percent of priests have been sexually involved with minors at some point in their careers. That's less or the same as in society as a whole, he said.




Quote:

March 25, 2002

By TERESA WATANABE, Times Staff Writer


The wave of clergy sex scandals now engulfing the Roman Catholic Church has battered other denominations as well, producing an uneven record of response that ranges from the Episcopal Church's aggressive and detailed policies to the Southern Baptist Convention's widespread lack of written standards.

In the last decade, clergy sexual misconduct has been exposed in virtually every faith tradition. National studies have shown no differences in its frequency by denomination, region, theology or institutional structure ...

... At least one Jewish researcher says that sexual misconduct is still routinely covered up by rabbis. Charlotte Rolnick Schwab, a New York psychotherapist and author of a forthcoming book on rabbis and sex abuse, said she has received hundreds of complaints from women across all movements and still sees rabbis denying them publicly. Congregations themselves sometimes exacerbate the problems, she said.

In one recent case involving a Florida rabbi convicted of using the Internet to find boys and sexually abuse them, congregant support prompted the judge to sentence him to six years in prison instead of the maximum 60 years, Schwab said. "It's outrageous."

Similar charges have been leveled against the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest of the Baptist bodies in the United States. Dee Ann Miller, a victim's advocate and author of books about the topic, said she had received complaints from victims in 30 states, half of them involving minors. She said church officials have not been responsive ...


Quote:
Sex scandals also affect Protestant clergy
RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
Thursday, April 4, 2002
(04-04) 10:42 PST (AP) --

The flood of sex abuse allegations against priests this year has focused attention on the Roman Catholic Church, but Protestant denominations have also faced sex scandals involving clergy.

In fact, while data are sketchy, at least one expert believes the incidence of clergy molesting young children may be about as frequent -- or infrequent -- in Protestantism as it is in Catholicism.

Penn State historian Philip Jenkins argued in his 1996 book, "Pedophiles and Priests," that both secular and Catholic media exaggerate the extent of Catholic cases involving minors, while downplaying Protestant abuse ..

... Minneapolis psychologist Gary Schoener agreed.

"There are no real scientific data" on Protestants, he said. Since 1974, his Walk-In Counseling Center has been consulted on more than 2,000 cases of clergy sexual misconduct of all types, two-thirds of them with Protestants ...


Quote:
Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches
April 05, 2002

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers ...


Quote:
Clergy Sexual Abuse
written by Frances Park

It is commonly believed that clergy sexual abuse is an exclusively Catholic problem that does not happen in other churches. In a 1983 doctoral thesis by Richard Blackmon, 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyed admitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner and 38% admitted to other sexualized contact with a parishioner. In separate denominational surveys, 48% of United Church of Christ female ministers and 77% of United Methodist female ministers reported having been sexually harassed in church. Although the actual extent of the problem is unknown, the significance of clergy sexual abuse is acknowledged by the denominational leaders of all Christian churches ...


Quote:
Catholic Church not only religion facing abuse problems, expert says
By Michelle Laque Johnson
Catholic News Service

PHILADELPHIA (CNS) -- Although Catholic priests may be getting the most publicity about allegations of sexual abuse of minors, they are far from the only clergy guilty of such misconduct, according to a professor of history and religious studies at Pennsylvania State University.

"You name me a denomination and I'll give you a case," Philip Jenkins told The Catholic Standard & Times, Philadelphia archdiocesan newspaper. "Some (denominations) with huge problems include Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Buddhists, Jews, Baptists, Pentecostals, Episcopalians -- you name them."

Jenkins' 15 books include "Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis," published in 1996 by Oxford University Press.

One of the most extreme cases of clergy sex abuse in U.S. history involved a Pentecostal minister named Tony Leyva, who molested several hundred boys in the 1980s, Jenkins said. But few Americans have heard of Leyva, he added, while some molesters who are former Catholic priests have become household names.

Jenkins attributes that not to anti-Catholicism, but to various groups within the Catholic Church who have agendas unrelated to the sexual abuse scandal.

"In the 1980s, as cases came to light, it was very often Catholic factions themselves who made this out to be a Catholic issue," he said. "Liberals within the church said, 'See, this is a dreadful problem. It shows what happens when you don't have women priests.' Conservatives said, 'This shows what happens when you have gay priests.' This was adopted by the secular press."

Jenkins said that although the term "pedophile priests" came into usage in the mid-1980s, the problem should have more properly been called "pedophile pastors."

The "pedophile priests" phrase "defines the issue and makes it far more limited than it really is," he added. "In fact, most of the clergy who misbehave are not priests.

"My view is there is no evidence that Catholic clergy offend at a higher or lower rate than other clergy or than nonclergy that deal with children," Jenkins said. "There's no evidence either way. If somebody says, 'Well, it's obvious, they do,' I say, 'Fine, give me the evidence,' and the evidence isn't there."

Patricia Kelly of Kelly Counseling and Consulting in Glen Mills, Pa., agrees that other denominations have at least as high an incidence of sexual misconduct problems as the Catholic Church.

A number of years ago, Kelly said, she participated in a treatment program for clergy with sex abuse problems. "Most of the clergy that were there were not Catholic clergy," she said. "They were Protestant clergy. Most clergy that abuse are ministers, but the (Catholic) Church is sexy. It sells papers."

Writing in the March 3 issue of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Jenkins cited an unnamed Anglican diocese in Canada that "is currently on the verge of bankruptcy as a result of massive lawsuits caused by decades of systematic abuse."

That case refutes the argument that the sex abuse problem stems from the practice of celibacy, he said, since "the Anglican Church does not demand celibacy of its clergy."

In the United States, a $1.2 million judgment in 1991 against the Episcopal Diocese of Colorado in a sexual misconduct case brought by a woman led the Church Insurance Co., which insures Episcopal dioceses, to mandate certain safeguards that are considered among the strictest in the country.

In addition to publishing a sexual misconduct policy and procedures manual and requiring background checks for all clergy, employees and volunteers who regularly supervise youth activities, the Episcopal policy mandates four hours of child sexual abuse awareness training and four hours of training on issues of sexual harassment in the workplace and sexual exploitation in pastoral relationships.

"Church Insurance gave us that extra nudge and said we had to do something because they wouldn't be able to sustain (these awards)," Beverly Factor, sexual misconduct officer for the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles, told The Los Angeles Times.

Jenkins said "a bold and thorough self-study" of clergy misconduct was done by the Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago in the early 1990s. It looked at every priest who had served in the archdiocese for the past 40 years -- some 2,200 individuals -- and "reopened every internal complaint ever made against these men."

"The standard of evidence applied was not legal proof that would stand up in a court of law, but just the consensus that a particular charge was probably justified," he wrote. "By this low standard, the survey found that about 40 priests -- about 1.8 percent of the whole -- were probably guilty of misconduct with minors at some point in their careers.

"Put another way, no evidence existed against about 98 percent of parish clergy, the overwhelming majority of the group," he added.

In the Post-Gazette article, Jenkins said he is "in no sense soft on the issue of child abuse" and "cannot be called a Catholic apologist, since I am not even a Catholic."

"But I am worried that justified anger over a few awful cases might be turned into ill-focused attacks against innocent clergy," he wrote. "The story of clerical misconduct is bad enough without it turning into an unjustifiable outbreak of religious bigotry against the Catholic Church."




Quote:
Welcome to a collection of news reports of ministers sexually abusing children:

ALL Protestant denominations - 838 Ministers

147 Baptist Ministers

251 "Bible" Church Ministers (fundamentalist/evangelical)

140 Anglican/Episcopalian Ministers

38 Lutheran Ministers

46 Methodist Ministers

19 Presbyterian Ministers

197 various Church Ministers



Quote:
Pentecostal Evangelist TONY LEYVA received a 20 year prison sentence on March 28 for running a child prostitution ring. Federal Dist. JudgeJames Turk called him and his 2 partners "bad to the core."

Leyva was previously sentenced to 2.5 years for sexually abusing 2 boys in Virginia. His religious accomplices RIAS EDWARD MORRIS, 27, got 15 years, and FREDDIE H. HERRING, 50, got 12 years. All were fined $5,000.

Agents located at least 30 boys, some as young as 8, molested by Leyva in the past 20 years; some put the total at more than 800 victims. (New York Times, 3/29/89)


Now, none of this absolves the Catholic priests who are guilty, nor does it absolve the higher-ups who've shielded some of them and sought to evade responsibility; those priests, and their enablers, are every bit as guilty as are their Protestant counterparts - of whom, it should be noted, there appear to be more offenders than in the Catholic Church. Now just why do you suppose the Catholics get all the press? Is there any explanation beyond ignorance, prejudice and bigotry? I can think of only one other answer; high profile with deep pockets.

Another perspective on child-abuse is worth exploring. Its a perspective which has nothing to do with clergy, and is far more troubling. A virtuallly overlooked 2004 report commissioned by the US Department of Education (Educator Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature) indicates children within the public school sysyem may be as much as 100 times more likely to experience sexual abuse perpetrated by an adult employed within the public school system than are children at risk of abuse from Catholic priests.

Initially conceived as a framework from which to expand and develop an exhaustive, definitive national study, the report apparently shocked and dismayed the higher-ups of the public education system to such an extent that planning for further research has been shelved, and the report essentially has been buried. The report's working title had been "A Synthesis of Existing Literature in Connection With the Design of a National Analysis". The change to the as-published title is telling; some would prefer not to know - and prefer that no-one know - the extent and impact of the problem of child abuse in our public schools.

A letter from the Department of Education to the report's director, calling for the pre-publication title change, stated the department "has not made plans to conduct further work on a national study on sexual abuse in schools". Carlin Mertz, an Education Department spokesman, indicated the department no longer intended a full-blown study of the issue. "That's all we're going to do right now," said Mr. Mertz in an interview last year. "Right now, this is it."

The report found nearly 10 percent of American students are targets of unwanted sexual attention by public school employees, abuse ranging from sexual comments through inappropriate touching to forcible rape, at some point during their K-12 public education. The report estimates literally many millions of children are or have been affected, and indicates little proactive attention has been given the problem.

A widely publicized 2003 study conducted for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops found that in the 50-plus year period 1950-2002, 10,6667 allegations involving sexual misconduct with minors were levelled against Catholic clergy. By comparison, the tucked-under-the-rug 2004 Department of Education report estimated nearly 300,000 incidents of sexual abuse of school children by school employees took place just in the decade between 1991 to 2000.

It was found that 9.6% of all students in grades 8-11 reported sexual harassment by teachers, coaches, or other school employees. Included were reports of misconduct involving physical contact as well as such behavior as sexual remarks, jokes, or gestures, with 8.7% of respondents reporting "noncontact" harassment and 6.7% reporting harassment involving physical contact.

Over 4.5 Million school children are likely to have been "sexually harassed or abused by an employee of a school sometime between kindergarten and 12th grade," the report says. "This is about the same number of people who live in all of Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming."

Source: US Dept. of Education Policy and Program Study Service: Educator Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature (Note: 156 page .pdf file)





Any questions?
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 01:08 am
Razz You gotta love a good timber slam dunk !!!

(Glad he's on our side....this time..... Shocked )
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 06:49 am
Jeremiah wrote:


1) I assume you know what 'sexual' means... I also assume you can look up 'indiscretion' in an online dictionary. I'm sure you can manage that.

2) The only link I ever suggested between religion and molestation is that molesters, however you define it, often profess one religion or another. Nothing more...

3) By "one could write a multivolume work," on said sexual indiscretions, I meant that since a lot of people have walked the earth throughout human history, many of whom chose to adhere to a particular religion, surely then, there were people of religion who commited despicable sexual acts... I think if we took a comparatively small sample of examples of American sex crimes, organized by the criminal's religious affiliation, indexed within a specific period, such as between 1840 and 2006, one could indeed write a multivolume work consisting of thousands of pages! Does this not stand to reason?

I was making a general deduction, not so much forming a scientific hypothesis for which I'd have to present evidence based on data collection or experiementation - nor was I forming such a hypothesis for which I would have present evidence -- yet you rather snidely insisted I do so. Obviously, when most people have a friendly conversation, they're not intending to make scientific hypotheses. That's sort of a strange thing to assume when just chatting on a message board - strangely defensive. That being said, I never presumed to "lay out the basics" of such a subject.

1: Weak sauce. 'sexual indiscretion, when defined soley by a dictionary, leaves a nebulous proposition that can mean just about anything from kissing to farm style gang bangs. It's a matter of perspective. I was asking for how you would define it.
2: Timber fleshed out my point in regards to 'drawing a corelation between sexual molestation and milkmen' with his school employee example. The point being, what's the difference? You may as well be singling out blacks or hispanics, or any other group. Since it can not be shown that the catholic, or any other church, is responsible for a greater density of molestation than any other segment of the population, your thesis amounts to little more than biggotry.
3: that one could write 'volumes' on the nebulous subject of 'sexual indiscretion' in general in no way furthers or demonstrates your point in regards to church/molestation corelation. This is neither here nor there.
the rest: Sounds like an excuse to not have to support your contentious proposition. Again, very weak.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 07:09 am
Bella Dea wrote:
For you to claim that the Catholic church is pro-molestation is just ridiculous.


Ditto!
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Aug, 2006 07:15 am
1.5 million kids from Milton?

This number sounds a bit high for Milton, as I don't think there's 1.5 million people in Milton. As matter of fact, Boston ( Milton is a suburb of Boston ) has a population of only 600,000.
Shocked
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Aug, 2006 11:52 pm
Yes, timber is correct. I have remarked on the epidemic of sexual exploitation by school teachers, administrators etc on a number of occasions, and have received mostly sneers in return.

But it's your kids, nieces , nephews and grandkids I'm talking about, folks. Ya better wake up.

Hardly a week goes by without another incident reported by the press. And how many go unreported?

These folks are protected by powerful 'professional organizations for educators' (NEA and AFT are the two largest) and often do not lose their jobs but maintain the status quo with ease, thanks to the local stooges which are willing to turn a blind eye to it.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2006 05:04 am
What I'd like to know is...is it happening more?....or is it just reported more, meaning it's being uncovered more?

I wouldn't mind betting it's happening less now than ever, and that it is being covered up less than ever also.

These days people are far more wary of it, that would also make it more difficult....

But then again, there's the internet..... Sad
0 Replies
 
smorgs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2006 06:05 am
There is no point in arguing which religion abuses children more than the other...

Most cases of sexual abuse of a minor, takes place when power is held by the adult with a desire to abuse, the minor is in close proximity and the minor is in a vulnerable position.

This happens in institutions, within the home, within religious organisations of any denomination, recreational organisations et al.

We ALL know that children suffer abuse everyday through all sorts of circumstances.

To what level it can carry on without concern, intervention and investigation, surely depends on the infrastructure and power of the organisation?

But then it can be one adult in a home that wields as much power.

I think this is a worthy debate, but we should be debating the reasons why it is so prevalent in our society, and what it is about such institutions that can prolong a childs suffering through non-intervention.

I have worked in this area (I prefer not to say where). Directly with vulnerable young women - I have NEVER met one that wasn't abused as a child (all kinds of abuse). They were from all backgrounds and religions. Abusers of children are the same - from all backgrounds and religions, they just wear different badges.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2006 06:37 am
As an example of the classic Protestant Catholic-bashing exercise, however, this thread is a gem. Not content, of course, to simply lambaste the Catholics, the loving Protestants could not resist the opportunity to piss on the Jehovah's Witnesses, too.

Love thy neighbor as thyself--unless he be Catholic, or Jehovah's Witness, or Mormon, or Muslim, or . . .
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Aug, 2006 09:02 am
There's no hypocracy like holy hypocracy.












Cue the orchestra and bring out the chorus line.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Aug, 2006 09:18 pm
If you are a 50 year old married man, and you rape a 13 year old girl...what would a religious leader suggest as punishment?

Public hanging.......seems fair........but not for you ......... for the GIRL !!!!!! (Atefeh Sahaaleh, 1988-2004.)

That's Sharia Law in Iran ....but I'm supposed to think the Catholics are the perverted ones ?
0 Replies
 
lezzles
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 01:29 am
Whilever there is one man (or woman) on this earth who believes that females were put here purely for use by and to pleasure males the tragedy of Atefeh Sahaaleh will happen again and again and again.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 07:12 am
There, i think you are wrong--it takes a preponderance of such opinion to produce such a result. So long as there is a community of believers who subscribe to such a hateful world view, girls are not safe.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 07:18 am
If a 50 year old priest molests a 13 year old girl or boy, the church has done its best to shuttle them away into hidding or actually, if they are high enough up in hierachy, slapping their hands and observing a don't ask, don't tell plan. They outwardly profess that they do not want homosexuals as brothers, nuns or priests but inwardly they have no choice as long as they will not accept women into this male dominated travesty of a religion. If all the gay men quit or were ousted from the church, it would likely collapse.

Then there's Mel Gibson and his hang-up on the fundamentalist Catholic religion, another pining to board a time travelling machine and go back to the Middle Ages (or the Early Middle Ages, the new reference for the Dark Ages).

Of course, it's doubtful he'd want to go back there sober. He might even want to go back to the 30's and reside in the Vatican so he can ignore the holocaust happening just under his nose (see "The Gardens of the Finizi Continis").
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:12 pm
The blind shall lead the blind: The problem with catholic priests and the kids is nearly 1/10 have commited offences and almost everytime the Vatican has tried to hide it from the police by moving these people about!!

Would anyone here be happy if the schools where the same?

Imagine 1/10 teachers molesting and then getting moved to another school to get the issue covered up? Stop defending the blind people and wake up....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:15 pm
You need to talk to "real life"--he'd likely be willing to contend that one tenth of school employees commit acts of child sexual abuse, and get away with it.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:15 pm
BDV, you got any evidence to back up that 1/10 claim?
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:18 pm
Check out 3rd post from this topic.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2006 06:20 pm
You do love to bash Catholics, though, don't you BDV?
0 Replies
 
 

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