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When does a life technically end?

 
 
Reply Fri 14 Jul, 2006 09:18 pm
Do we go on living after the heart and brain stops functioning?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 3,107 • Replies: 72
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Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 09:01 am
Only the dead know and they're not talking. I have a hard time believing that there is anything left to live on after death, though.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 09:07 am
I would say, in general agreement with the medical community, that the actual cessation of life occurs with the termination of critical brain functions. Some may hold termination of higher order brain function fills the qualification, while others may hold life persists untill the termination of lower order brain function. In my view, life ceases at the sometimes difficult to positively determine point at which failure of the associated organism's systems preclude recovery of autonomic processes, including, but not limited to, cognition.
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freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jul, 2006 04:59 pm
Quote:
When does a life technically end?


It doesn't, when you die time just freezes, people go into state of total unconsciousness, similar to having general anaesthesia. So all the people that have died will - on the day of judgment (when the world ends), wake up at the same time same instance all together in same place, with their body and sole fully intact, as if just 1-2 seconds had passed, (they were just asleep/unconscious), people will remember exactly who they were and what they had done during their lifetime...you will be able to meet all the people that had lived on this planet.

I can't wait to meet Hitler.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 10:41 pm
We know very little of what consciousness is, and how it occurs, as stories like this illustrate.

Materialists have no real explanation for consciousness on a chemical basis alone.

A growing modern tendency is to write off folks like these as those who will never regain cognition, pull the plug and harvest their organs.

Fortunately that didn't happen here.

Quote:
Man Wakes After 19 Years in Coma
Main Category: Rehabilitation News
Article Date: 09 Jul 2003 - 0:00am (PDT)


Arkansas, USA - Man Wakes After Spending 19 Years in a Coma As the Result of a Car Crash; Greets Mother

A man regained consciousness after spending 19 years in a coma as the result of a car crash, greeting his mother who was waiting at his bedside.

'He started out with 'Mom' and surprised her and then it was 'Pepsi' and then it was 'milk.' And now it's anything he wants to say,' Stone County Nursing and Rehabilitation Center social director Alesha Badgley said Tuesday.

Terry Wallis, 39, had been at the center since the July 1984 crash.

His father, Jerry Wallis, said his son uttered his first word June 12, was able to talk a little a day later and has improved ever since.

Terry Wallis' wife, Sandi, said her husband was riding with a friend when their car left the road and plunged into a creek. Wallis and his friend were found the next day underneath a bridge. The friend was dead and Wallis was comatose.

'It's been hard dealing with it, it's been hard realizing the man I married can't be there,' Sandi Wallis said. 'We all, the whole family, missed out on his company.'

Wallis' daughter, Amber, was born shortly before the accident. She is now 19 and Wallis has said he wants to walk again, for her. He is a quadriplegic as a result of the crash.

His mother, Angilee Wallis, called her son's return to consciousness a miracle.

'I couldn't tell you my first thought, I just fell over on the floor,' she said.

While in a coma, Wallis spent most of his time at the rehabilitation center, but his family took him out for weekends and special occasions.

'The doctor said that's why he remembers things; we might have kept his mind going,' Sandi Wallis said.
from http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=3921&nfid=crss

see also http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/09/health/main562293.shtml



Quote:

Woman talks after 20 years in a coma
Last Updated Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:50:41 EST
CBC News

HUTCHINSON, KAN. - A woman in Kansas who was knocked into a coma by a drunk driver 20 years ago has begun to speak and remember her past.

A hit-and-run driver struck Sarah Scantlin, then 18, when she was walking to her car in September 1984.

Her brain was injured so badly that doctors first feared she would spend her life in a vegetative state. For years, she has been aware of her environment but unable to form words or make any sounds other than loud cries.

That changed last month, when she suddenly told employees at the nursing home where she lives, "OK, OK."

"You condition yourself to be able to try to deal with something like this, and then all of the sudden, the world instantly changed from despair to joy," her father, Jim Scantlin, told CNN.

"It's amazing how important communication is between human beings."

The woman can now speak words and count, and has begun to remember people and places, staff at the nursing home say.

"It just happened one day and nobody really knows why," said Sharon Kuepker, administrator for the Golden Plains Health Care Center.

Scantlin's family and friends plan to gather at the centre on Saturday to celebrate the change.

"She's 100 per cent Sarah again," her father said. "The family is back together, and it's just simply a joyous situation."

The man who hit Scantlin, Douglas Doman, was jailed for six months after being convicted of driving under the influence and leaving the scene of an accident.
from http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/02/11/coma-woman-050211.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jul, 2006 11:08 pm
When the brain stops to function.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 08:31 am
real life wrote:
We know very little of what consciousness is, and how it occurs, as stories like this illustrate.

Materialists have no real explanation for consciousness on a chemical basis alone.

Neoroscience is in its infancy, yes. However, the cases you cite indicate broad public misunderstanding of what science does know. In neither case was the patient diagnosed as being in a Persistant Vegetative State - they were in coma ... big difference. Coma victims not uncommonly recover, sometimes after many years or even decades, however, PVS victims - those who's brain function is confined to the brain stem with no higher-order activity, do not recover. Among the advances of science in this area is, through various imaging and monitoring techniques, is increased precision in the matter of determining the amount and nature of brain function and activity in unresponsive patients.

Quote:
A growing modern tendency is to write off folks like these as those who will never regain cognition, pull the plug and harvest their organs.

Hysterical, hyperbolic, totally baseless, sensationalist, agenda-driven, ignorant bullshit.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 09:05 am
When you die:
"In that day his thoughts do perish." (Psalms 146:4)

So, when you're dead, you're dead.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 09:10 am
timberlandko wrote:
real life wrote:
We know very little of what consciousness is, and how it occurs, as stories like this illustrate.

Materialists have no real explanation for consciousness on a chemical basis alone.

Neoroscience is in its infancy, yes. However, the cases you cite indicate broad public misunderstanding of what science does know. In neither case was the patient diagnosed as being in a Persistant Vegetative State - they were in coma ... big difference. Coma victims not uncommonly recover, sometimes after many years or even decades, however, PVS victims - those who's brain function is confined to the brain stem with no higher-order activity, do not recover. Among the advances of science in this area is, through various imaging and monitoring techniques, is increased precision in the matter of determining the amount and nature of brain function and activity in unresponsive patients.

Quote:
A growing modern tendency is to write off folks like these as those who will never regain cognition, pull the plug and harvest their organs.

Hysterical, hyperbolic, totally baseless, sensationalist, agenda-driven, ignorant bullshit.


There seems to be a difference of opinion what the diagnosis was for Terry Wallis

the New York Times wrote:
Terry Wallis showed no improvement in the first year, and doctors soon pronounced him to be in a persistent vegetative state, and gave him virtually no chance of recovery, his parents said.
from http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/health/psychology/04coma.html?ex=1153281600&en=b38cf15fe217d2a4&ei=5070

New Scientist wrote:
Wallis was frequently classified as being in a permanent vegetative state. Though his family fought for a re-evaluation after seeing many promising signs that he was trying to communicate, their requests were turned down.

"A careful bedside examination at 6 months [after the accident] would have unequivocally said he was not in a vegetative state," says Schiff.
from http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9474-rewired-brain-revives-patient-after-19-years.html


But that's just the point, isn't it?

We know very little of what goes on in the brain and the diagnosis of one professional can greatly differ from another.

Quote:
Studies indicate PVS requires considerable skill to diagnose, including an assessment over a period of time; diagnosis cannot be made, even by the most experienced clinician, from a bedside assessment:


Out of 40 patients diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state, 17 (43%) were later found to be alert, aware, and often able to express a simple wish. The study is one of the largest, most sustained analyses of severely disabled people presumed to be incapable of conscious thinking, communication, or awareness of their surroundings. The author, London neurologist Dr. Keith Andrews, said, "It is disturbing to think that some patients who were aware had for several years been treated as being vegetative.

Studies show PVS patients feel pain -- indeed, a Univ. of Mich. neurologist, in one of the most complete studies, concluded that, when food and fluids are withdrawn [to impose death], the patient should be sedated.

A study of 84 patients with a "firm diagnosis" of PVS found that 41% regained consciousness by six months, 52% by three years. These statistics certainly discredit the terms "persistent" and "permanent".
from http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/05/pvs_diagnosis_a_1.php


It's really easy in hindsight to line up with the guy who turned out to be right.

But often decisions to terminate care are made on the basis of what seems to be reliable consultation. No, not hyperbole, that's the reality.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 09:20 am
The problem as I see it it is in the diagnosis - and as science has advanced, ambiguities have been reduced. What is commonplace diagnostic technique today, and what is commonplace treatment protocol today, was science fiction just a few years ago. There are no "miracles", there are simply things about which we don't know enough to draw firm conclusions.
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 09:44 am
I heard it's when you get married.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:43 am
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
I heard it's when you get married.
For when I was single
My pockets would jingle
I wish I was single again. . .
0 Replies
 
Swimpy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:43 am
Doh!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:50 am
Life ends when the sucker's dead . . . technically speaking . . .
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:55 am
Quote:
There are no "miracles",



You gonna back that up with some scientific proof?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:58 am
The burden of proof rests with the one asserting the positive not the negative.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 11:08 am
You talkin ta me?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 11:11 am
No. I'm using your post to talk to other people.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 11:13 am
Lash wrote:
No. I'm using your post to talk to other people.


That was a good one . . . i believe that is what is referred to as "witty repartee" . . .
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jul, 2006 11:16 am
I aim to please.

Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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