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THE ANCESTORS OF THE ENGLISH, FRENCH, ECT. ARE:

 
 
Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Aug, 2005 10:33 pm
Santana, I thought you had died and gone to heaven Very Happy

Walter, I have a personal interest in the name of McClain. Have you come across any tibits?
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Krekel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 11:16 am
The original people of the British Isles are the Celts, but in the 4th and 5th century AD the Angles, Saxons and Jutes (all Germanic) crossed the Channel and gained control over England.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 11:36 am
Krekel wrote:
The original people of the British Isles are the Celts,....


The Celts didn't invade Britain before 500 BC, and it wasn't until c. 350 that Celts crossed to Ireland.
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Krekel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 01:53 pm
You're right.
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Mapleleaf
 
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Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 05:37 pm
Krekel,

Did anyone ever tell you that Walter is really, really a level I Supercomputer? Sometimes it is easier to get information from him than Google. Very Happy
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 05:45 pm
Good to hear about the Jutes again. They have been largely forgotten in history which is a terrible shame.
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Mapleleaf
 
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Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 08:08 pm
Alright goodfielder, you have my attention re the Jutes. My brain doesn't compute that term. Do have thoughts to share?
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 09:01 pm
I have a quirky approach to English history Mapleleaf and it has to do with long ago experiences in my childhood. Whenever I learned about the various "waves" of invaders who became settlers to that foggy little island I knew of the Britons, the Romans, the Angles, the Saxons, the Normans...and despite protestations of some that the Glorious Revolution of 1688 was in fact an invasion... (I prefer to think of it as a friendly Protestant takeover).. the Orange lot.

But nothing about the Jutes. But they were there. I mean the Danes get a mention as well because of their Danelaw but the Jutes seem to have been almost written out of history. I bet if I asked an English schoolchild about the Jutes they'd probably ask me if they ever played the London Palladium.


To the best of my knowledge I have no Jute blood. That's to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps though I have some sort of atavistic compulsion to mention the Jutes because I am a descendant. I don't know. It does trouble me though. I wake often in the middle of the night dreaming of the sea and grey seals and golden-haired, fair people with beatific smiles. There must be something in it.

No point in mentioning it here in Australia though. Mention the Jutes and people think I'm talking about a new model of what North Americans call a pickup truck. I suppose I feel free to mention Jutes here because some understand what I'm on about. I know Walter does.

That's actually quite heartening. Perhaps I'm not alone after all in wondering if there has been an anti-Jute conspiracy among historians.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 11:17 pm
We really know little about the Iberians (besides some "stories" of fairies, brownies, and "little people."

But they have created Stonehenge, it seems.

Negelcted in history books is as well the invasions of the Scots and Welsh people to England before the Celts arrived.

You can find some (more) mentions about the Jutes, when you use e.g. Google print and/or Google scholar.
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goodfielder
 
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Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2005 11:56 pm
Thank you for those references Walter. I was intrigued to read in one piece where it was put that perhaps the West Saxons may have indulged in ethnic cleansing of the Jutes in southern England. I had never actually come across that idea before although something deep within me resonates with that idea.

Quote:
Negelcted in history books is as well the invasions of the Scots and Welsh people to England before the Celts arrived.


It was ever thus. I remember something about goalposts at Wembley being cut down after a soccer game involving England and Scotland. But that could be false memory.
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McTag
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:03 am
Well, well. Brownies and little people. Good stuff.

Anyone read "Puck of Pook's Hill", by Rudyard Kipling? Neither have I, not all the way to the end anyway, but it refers interestingly to pre-Roman Britain, and indeed to the "little people".

I learned about the Jutes in school history lessons. But don't ask me any questions about them now.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:06 am
McTag wrote:


I learned about the Jutes in school history lessons. But don't ask me any questions about them now.


Good old BBC might refresh your memory :wink:
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McTag
 
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Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:10 am
goodfielder wrote:

It was ever thus. I remember something about goalposts at Wembley being cut down after a soccer game involving England and Scotland. But that could be false memory.


Not false, this actually happened (sometime in the 70s I think) and after that the Football Association (note, not the soccer association) and the Police banned international football matches between these two countries, incredibly.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:16 am
Yes, I remember that as well - got confused a bit, since I thought: 'soccer', since when do they play this? Laughing
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Oct, 2005 12:27 am
McTag wrote:
goodfielder wrote:

It was ever thus. I remember something about goalposts at Wembley being cut down after a soccer game involving England and Scotland. But that could be false memory.


Not false, this actually happened (sometime in the 70s I think) and after that the Football Association (note, not the soccer association) and the Police banned international football matches between these two countries, incredibly.


Apologies McTag - I forgot - we call it "soccer" (to differentiate it from Australian Rules Football) - and of course the FA runs football in the UK. I remember my father was always saying that "so-and-so knew sweet FA." I reasoned those people must have been good football fans.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Oct, 2005 03:02 am
Walter - my mother's ancestors decided it was far safer to stay in Northern Germany and farm bits of land that the North Sea flooded regularly. The other lot went on to conquer the world. History is just one big fat conspiracy to keep me behind the damn eight-ball!
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