Why do people commit suicide?

Don't get me wrong. I am not in any way saying that all we have to do is medicate people and their problems, and thoughts of suicide will go away.
In fact, and this is another rant all together, I don't really buy into medications to a certain extent.... but again.... That is another topic all together.

What I am saying is that it takes a certain 'chemical setting' in someone's brain for them to consider death as a reaction to (as Infrablue pointed out) temporary problems.
Suicide is a permanent solution to these temporary problems, and most people do not consider suicide to the point of doing it as their means of a solution.

Yes. Suicide attempts ARE a cry for help, and if more people would listen, and more programs were in place that were affordable to everyone then those who want the help could get it.
But you have to question those who make the attempts to get attention, but toss it to the way side when it arrives.
Again that boils down to the mental state of the person.

Most people don't react that strongly to situations. Most people have the ability to cope with certain issues in life.

To that statement there are exceptions.
Speaking only for myself, one instance where I would truthfully consider suicide would be the death of my husband and child.
If, let's say we were in a car accident and they died... but I did not, I can not honestly say I would not kill myself.

I am not suicidal. Nor do I have a crippling mental disorder. I am relatively normal with a dash of depression and misplaced anger at times. By no means am I unstable.

Suicide is a VERY personal choice that no government should, or even could control. I believe with every fiber of my being that if someone wants to commit suicide for what ever their reason, they should be given the space to do so. No matter how hard it is for the living.

I too have worked with people who have tried to kill themselves, and people who have survived real attempts at suicide.
One man I worked with, actually shot himself in the face, and by a doctors hands alone.. survived. He was then incapable of ever trying to take control of his life again. All the way down to actually using a toilet instead of Depends.

I know that suicide is hard for the living. We are the ones who have to deal with that person's choice on a daily basis. We are the ones who have to feel that sharp pain of loss while they have gone on to what ever happens after we die.

Because of that, I don't always stand behind my own decision to voice my opinion about freedom of suicide. Not being the person who chooses suicide though , it truthfully isn't my decision at all.

But I am getting off track...

You and I both.


What you stated ( im sorry you had to go through that ) is another reason why I truly believe that people should be given the space to make that decision with full support.

Full support meaning that the family members shouldn't be looked at as possible suspects after the person dies, they shouldn't be forced into legal punishment if they do not succeed, and as a society we should not look DOWN on them. We don't walk in their shoes and their skin doesn't hang on our bodies.. so who are we to try to take that decision away ?

Suicide, for those who are serious about it and WILL carry it out, is NOT an easy decision. Nor is it usually a simple task.

Re: chemical imbalances, I think it's not just in the sense of illnesses or biological predisposition, but the fluctuations that happen due to emotional upheaval, stress, etc.

The mind-body connection is powerful. There was recently a thing in the NYT magazine about a woman who nearly died literally of a broken heart; her husband died, she saw him, she had a heart attack, they thought it was a blockage but when they put dye in through a vein it showed that there was no obstruction, as they expected. It was just an overload of (forget what exactly, adrenaline-type stuff but not that) that caused her heart to stop working. All "mental." But she really almost died.

I saw "Titanic" when it first came out in the theaters, the first use of rear-view captioning, and the first time I'd seen (and been able to understand) a film in some 15 years. I'd watched lots of videos, but not the full-screen cinematic experience. It was a bit like how the first people to watch a movie screamed and jumped out of their seats when they saw a train coming at them -- it had been so long that the impact (I'm eternally sheepish, but it is a movie with a real emotional wallop if you're in the right frame of mind) was enormous.

As I was driving home on a rainy night, on a winding freeway, in the mountains, I was still firmly in its spell, just couldn't stop crying. At one point I listed too close to a freeway divider and thought morosely, "what does it matter, he's dead..." I did manage to shake myself out of it... "What the HELL is wrong with you, it's a ******* movie!!!" But I was milliseconds away from an actual conscious choice to die. And I'm a person who has been through some pretty bad stuff without ever seriously considering suicide. (I think I've been a little bit pissed at Leonardo di Caprio ever since.)

Anyway, there have been studies that have shown how different our brains are in "hot" states and "cold" states. (Cold is down, calm, unemotional -- hot is the opposite.) We're terrible, when we're in a cold state, at predicting how we'll act in a given situation that causes a hot state.

This is one of the many reasons I'm wary of having guns in a house, as something that allows someone to instantly carry out plans hatched in a hot state.

Here is the NYT story I referred to if anyone's curious:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/18/magazine/18wwln_diagnosis.html

Not directly related to suicide, but this excerpt explains how the mental can become the physical:

I'm not quite sure why I can't answer this question as asked. Maybe because it isn't a matter of interest but a personal matter. I debated for a bit and then saw Lash's response,



I work in the medical/technical arena and I'm usually pretty good at putting on my 'clinical hat' and removing myself and my emotions from discussions but, in this case, I can't say it any better than what Lash said.

The posts here have been very thoughtful and understanding of the differences between people and their particular reasons for not wanting to live.

When a person has been diagnosed with a severe mental illness and has to be confined and put on powerful antipsychotic drugs, I think that person should have the opportunity to refuse the drugs and go ahead with suicide. To me, that is much the same as asking for the hospital to not perform unecessary treatments just to keep a person alive--the body but not the mind. That choice in those extreme circumstances seems only right. If the choice was make before the symptoms became so bad that the person was totally incapacitated, I think someone like a Dr. Kevorkian should come in and help the person along. That way it is taken out of the hands of the family.

Basically, in extreme conditions, I don't think suicide is always such a bad idea.

Is the philosophical conclusion that, life, or existence is pointless, a result of chemical imbalances in the brain?

I would say the chemical imbalance may be the contributing factor that gives birth to the reason....

If a person is in abject misery upon opening his eyes every morning, and lives in a constant state of talking himself out of suicide--and treatments, medicine, and concerted attempts to alleviate the problem don't make life bearable--I think simply calling it a chemical imbalance is a bit cruel. (Though I'm not directing that to anyone.)

Quality of life may be impacted heavily by things that sound simple. It's all about quality of life to me.

Infra blue, life or existence is not pointless to most of us. As lash said, suicide becomes an option that should be respected when all other treatments have been tried. There comes a point for some, when nothing works and life has become not only pointless but extremely painful.

I think the comparison of a vegetative state and chronic, extreme mental pain are examples of when suicide should be an option--that's why living wills are so important.

Some mental illness is so severe and the treatments are so disabling on their own, that most of us can't even comprehend the lonely, constant battering of insane thoughts those people have to endure everyday.

Since somebody brought up the subject of chemical imbalance in the brain, we must also consider other issues such as gender crisis where a boy or girl feels uncomfortable as a boy or girl and has a sex change later in life.

Oprah had an interesting segment yesterday on this subject on identical twins, where one of them had a sex change. We know from what they said that they were very unhappy as children, because they couldn't identify themselves by the sex organ they were born with.

Our brain remains a mystery with too many variance on what an individual will experience in their lives from what we call chemical imbalance. I think this differes greatly from end of health/life issues, but important none-the-less.

Diane, I think many of us are aware that we give life or existence a point, but that life or existence has no point inherently. We give it a point, or we don't. Most do. It would seem to be a given, something almost intinctual. I think most of us are philosophical to a point because, like Lash touched upon, quality of life makes further inquiry moot.

maybe we make a point. Or maybe we try to reconcile with the pointlessness. Some are inclined to think that if there is no point, then there's no harm in letting it all go to waste.

I wouldn't want to "moot" the conversation.

There may be people who aren't severely depressed, but consider suicide because of pointlessness. For me, it has been hard to find a point, or a goal, now that my children have moved out. It's a worthwhile conversation.

I'd like to know what people of a certain age consider their "reason for living."

Hi.

Sorry, now that I've thought about it, maybe I am being a tad too frank. I suppose It's just that my relationship with everyone here is a very impersonal one; I've never met anybody here face to face.

Ok, fine, humans are more complicated to be summarised in a couple of "rules", but what makes it so? Is it our intelligence? Our awareness (are they the same thing?) ? Our strong emotions?

And as for the pros and cons thing - I quoted that off someone else (I can't quite remember who though).

That's good evidence of a cultural link to suicide. In Australia the number one cause of death of males 18-35 regularly swaps between car accidents and suicide. Female suicides occur at a significantly lower rate.

Interesting, Wilso. I wonder if that would hold true for the rest of the industrialized nations. Was there any mention in the study of trends elsewhere?

No, I've only read about it in news reports. I haven't studied the research.

From memory onlyI think it tends to be true in the west, at least, at least partly since men choose more lethal means. (Guns/hangings etc....availability of guns in rural Australia tends to account to some extent for a higher successful suicide rate in the bush.)

BBB
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aperson--

I don't think anyone took offense at anything you asked or said. I guess I responded in a way that may be characterized as negative, but I didn't feel negatively toward you.