Who are the most marketing-driven artists alive & in history

Lightwizard.....Can you shed any illumination on
" prints" based on some traditionally well known artists paintings like
the Group of Seven (Canada) for example. They feature those special embossed sort of stamps on their lower edge that are punched into the "print" ...... On the back of the print is pasted the "certificate of authenticity"....These prints are beautifully matted and framed and fetch
rather good money at the country auctions I attend........

....I sing along with music on the radio
or even unaccompanied, but that doesn't make me a singer. Isn't a musician an "artiste"? Yes, I agree, the term 'artist' is used too broadly.

The embossed stamp on the edge of the paper in a limited edition print is the publishers "chop mark."
A certificate pasted on the back is not according to Hoyle. It should be a seperate document which can be safely stored away from the print. Certificates don't mean much if a print were to be forged because, of course, the forger would also contrive a false certificate. One takes their chances at auctions if they don't have the expertise to authenticate the print according the the artist's signature and technique examination. I'm not sure what you mean by "rather good prices" but if you enter the artist's name into Google you might find sites that will quote some sort of market price. That actually has little to do with the true instrinsic value of the print, especially reproduction prints. If anyone is buying them for personal enjoyment and can afford them, that's one thing, but buying for investment is not advisable.

truth
Shepaints, not only "artist" but also "concert", "seminar" (now sales pitches), and "diva."

Back to the subject, the most market driven artists in the Seventies and Eighties were Dali and Chagall. Unfortunately, it came about that over 20% of what was available were likely fakes. There's no way to statistically document this as these ended up in private ownership and like being raped, many of the owners just don't report they've been had.

...sorry LW....I meant the certificate of authenticity is pasted on the back of the framed and matted print. I am sure these are mass-produced prints despite the stamp. Good money meaning upwards of $200.00 .....but I am not talking Sothebys!

I wonder about the quality of the paper used in mass produced prints. I did printmaking some years ago....(lithography, etching) We used only 100% rag paper for our very limited editions of hand-made prints.....

Certificates pasted on the back of the dust cover are also not advisable. $200.00 for a framed anything is not a bad price considering custom framing costs, so the print is actually selling for likely less than $50.00. They are likely offset lithographs. The gallery I am now managing has very little under $300.00 unframed and as much as $ 2-3M for a print considered rare and an artist with an established market. There are still a handful of artists who can command big prices for even the limited edition reproduction using silk screening (serigraph) or Iris printers (giclee).
Their market holds up to a degree in a good economy but there is a marked deflation in many of the artist's work right now. For instance, Ahnold's buddy, Hiro Yamagata, was commanding as much as $20,000.00 for sought after images. Now his market is at 25% of that value! Time to buy these artists? Still a gamble. Only dealers and brokers really make out in the long run.

If one is going to do limited edition reproduction prints, they should be on archival paper (100% acid free rag). Even offset lithos are often printed on this grade of paper.

Yes, LW....I realize $200.oo is cheap for framing
and that's fine if you are paying just for frames.
Some people think though, that they have
"stolen" the item at that price. When prices double or triple that figure, I get worried since then it seems people are purchasing for "investment". Anyhow, I must confess I haven't paid a lot of attention to these prints since I wasn't in the market. I'll take a closer look next time.

It's a buyers market even in the lowly limited edition print -- but it's still speculating (so often a euphemism for gambling). The company I am now consulting for does that constantly, buying up prints that are suddenly thrust onto the market, for instance printer's proofs that the studio who produced the print wish to sell. We've even had publishers call us, not happy that there are secondary market prints out there competing with their over-priced "authorized dealers." It's a difficult market to control. I just sold a print that I needed to complete the sale by selling a second piece out of a suite of prints. I had to get the print from the artist and had to pay more than I wanted to pay to satisfy the client. They still paid what would be a fair market price of $850.00 when it should have sold for $1400.00.

Of course, I'd rather sell original paintings and actually am trying right now to sell an original by the same artist.

that's a lot of money for a print. What's the typical price range you get on originals? From well known vs. not well known artists?

I want to price my work higher, but I feel bad b/c it makes the customer angry. Most people have no idea how much work goes into a painting. I know what's standard for a well known professional (a lot) but what about an undergrad student, a grad student, an unknown, a sort of known... What are some typical sales?

The owner had purchased a lot of originals from a publisher the past year or so and they are price for about a 24 x 30 at around $1800.00. The gallery that was selling the artist's originals and prints, Lahaina Gallery in Fashion Island, had them marked at between $4,000. and $5,500.00. There is a four times markup from an artist for originals to retail. There is an 8 to 10 times markup from the actual cost of a print to the retail market.

So I would guess they were buying the originals from the artist for around $1,000.00.

I know that's about what one major gallery in Orange County pays for a decent size original and they deal directly with their artists (they are representing the artist). So if an artist is selling direct, they have the option of selling at the wholesale price to the public or at the retail. It's pretty hard to get $2,000.00 without representation and not that difficult with representation considering that the work is good and in the right demographic for the genre of the work. I had a lot of abstracts at my gallery and they sold reasonably well at around $2 to 3M. I did a commission with an artist for a very large wall filling abstract at $4,500.00. It's difficult to break that $5M barrier with a new artist even if they are very good.

That's not bad. There isn't much of an art market when I live (Austin) and the prices for commercial work are very competative b/c of the art school here. A bunch of artists graduate and want to stay here, but there is no market. We have two galleries, D Berman and Gallery Lombardi which are pretty respectable and sometimes take out ads (in art in america) but they are small spaces and they represent very modern work. I don't think I'm ready to commit myself to a gallery yet, but Iv'e been looking into shows. There was an erotica show a little while ago I didn't think I was good enough to get into, then I saw the show and I would have fit in perfectly. It's hard submitting when I have to get professional slides taken of my large work (expensive, bulky, time consuming) then pay a $35 submission fee. If I'm ever in Orange County, I'll have to look you up.

I don't want to have to move to NY, LA, or Chicago to have an art career... Maybe I will go to London or Italy. Except with dual citizenship I have to pay twice the taxes. *Sigh*.

Portal....I have always taken my own colour slides
and never had any complaints about them. I
use a very basic 35 mm camera and put the
work outside in natural light....(slightly overcast
is good!) I try to fill up the whole frame with the
image, I believe there is some sort of masking
tape for slides one can buy, but I have never been
able to find it. Anyhow....I take about 6 slides for
each work and keep two in my own artist's file
and never let go of those!

Many artists do make there own slides, but it is difficult for non-photographic types to produce really top quality slides. Here are a few hints that I've learned from the photographer who captures images for me:

1. Outdoor light is fine and more economical than trying to artificially light the image. However, the image should not be directly in the sunlight, but shaded. Light overcast is alright, but avoid shooting on cloudy days when the light varies as clouds move.

2. Set the image up perpendicular to the ground. Your camera should be mounted on a stable tripod. Measure the distance from the ground to the center of the image. The distance from the ground (level with the ground on which the image sits) to the center of the camera lens should be the same. That is, a line drawn from the center of the lens to the surface of the image should be 90 degrees to both. If the lens is not directly opposite the image, there will be some degree of distortion. The greater the line between lens and image is from 90 degrees, the greater the distortion.

Some digital programs, like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, can "correct" the distortion, but that involves several additional steps and the resulting slides will lose considerable Quality. Most folks have neither the time, knowledge, or proper equipment to manipulate slide to digital and back, so I only mention this in passing.

3. Use only the best film that you can afford, and take multiple exposures of each image. Use a good light meter if you have one. The amount and color of the reflected/refracted light will vary depending upon a number of factors. My guy also uses a white card to adjust color balance before taking photos of each image. He also shoots each image with at least two cameras, one of which is a high-tech/prof. quality digital camera. If you want three slides of your images that means you should take a total of 9 exposures to be sure that you get the best rendition.

4. Long exposures with small apertures tend to be better than fast exposures with large apertures. Use a high quality wide-angle lens to minimize distortion.

5. Fill the frame with the largest dimension of the image, and avoid including the frame, easel, or any other background. My guy shoots the image against a black, non-reflective cloth. Generally the long dimension should be parallel to the camera regardless of whether the image is in portrait or landscape format. This is because 35mm film is longer than it is wide.

6. Have your slides developed by a professional quality film processor. Many of the outlets focusing on the general market are not as careful in maintaining calibration of their machines as those who cater mostly to professional photographers. Pro shops also generally are able to provide the best finishing of the slide. Application of silver photography tape to mask the area around the image usually will be done for a nominal cost, perhaps a buck a slide. The masking tape can be purchased at most professional photo finishers for very reasonable prices if you want to do the masking yourself. Masking the slide isn't difficult, but practice first on slides where mistakes won't matter much. If you do the masking yourself, you will need to remove the slide from the mounting and then remount it after taping. Professional finishers discourage reusing the same mounting.

7. Be sure what kind of slide cover is appropriate. Some shows stipulate plastic, others demand cardboard. Placement of labels and the content of labels also occasionally vary. Most commonly in my experience, the label goes on the top left front of the slide. If content of the label isn't stipulated at least include: Artist's name, title, media and dimensions of the original image, and an arrow pointing to the intended top of the image. Slide labels can be produced on self-adhesive computer paper, and are much superior to trying to handwrite the information.

Asherman is giving some good advice -- we use a digital camera in the gallery and that's because we E mail so many images. We've got thousands of images stored online and on our hard drive. All the publishers we deal with have Websites, of course. Several artists we deal directly with have digital imagery stored on CD Rom's and they provide a disk. Every gallery has a computer so the disk storage of images is a good idea. It's how to get them to pay attention. A small square shaped fold out brochure with a pocket for a CD Rom would be ideal packaging to send those who you've made a good contact with. It's just difficult for artists to play salesperson or agent and artist's agents are sparse in numbers and not really all that reliable. Almost all galleries want to deal directly with an artists and represent them. They don't like the idea of agents or representatives in between them and the artist. In Laguna Beach, there are many many galleries owned and operated by the artist themselves.

LW....a new take on your question......Is it the
artists who are marketing driven or their
agents? Or does that matter?

A docent at the Dali gallery in St. Petersberg, Florida
remarked that Salvador Dali's wife was a marketer extraordinaire.
He joked that she had eyes that could penetrate a bank vault! But
does that mean Dali wanted his work to end up
in mass production?

I do take my own slides, except when my work is 6 ft x 5 ft (I've been working large lately)
when the work is bigger than I am, I can't seem to take a nice slide without a professional setup, believe me I have tried.

I appreciate the tips. When photographing a small work I like to lay it on black or grey felt or, on a sunny day, on felt under a linen for consistent white lighting. The only problem with photographing it on the ground is that the perspective is sometimes off (not straight over picture.)

I am on the UT literary magazine art selection comittee, and you should see some of the slides we get - light reflections from flashes, brick walls, painting with a landscape behind it... It's silly.

Letter in Toronto's Globe and Mail this weekend raised the question of the legitimacy of recasting sculptures after the sculptor has died for example Degas.....What do you think LW?

For those interested there is an article
in the current Vanity Fair on the minefield surrounding getting authentication for the very
prolific Andy Warhol's work.....

Thank you LW and Asherman. Very good advice. You hit a key point, LW, about sending the brochure disc after you have made a good contact. Many of the artists up here don't spend enough time visiting galleries or museums. If you want to show you have to know what's going on. You have to appraise your work and see if it's good enough at that point to go into a gallery. You also have to know which galleries, etc. would be interested in your kind of work. It's homework and footwork.