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Why does this board always talk about Mormons?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 11:42 am
Well. mrcolj, could you explain why it would be necessary for Jesus to reappear after the bible was complete? Other than in the time of the end, that is.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 11:44 am
It's you and me Mr Colj. We shall fight the good fight and preserve the mormon integrity til the end. I forsee in the very near future when the LDS outnumber the evangelical nutjobs, I can hardly wait.
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mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 11:59 am
And the earth being 10,000 years old; that's hit and miss with religious people too, but definitely not a Mormon thing. The number of people who believe in evolution is directly correlated to religiosity within Mormonism, and that's pretty rare. The number of people who believe in evolution upon graduating BYU is like 76% if I recall. So there's not a huge movement to say the earth was created 6,000 years ago. The Bible however does attribute that human history as we know it began roughly 6,000 years ago. But the whole idea that the seven days of creation could have been 10M years apiece is a very common one.

neologist wrote:
Well. mrcolj, could you explain why it would be necessary for Jesus to reappear after the bible was complete? Other than in the time of the end, that is.

Because the Bible doesn't say that he wouldn't. He can appear whenever and wherever he wants, and does and did. See, the fundamental thing is that the Bible doesn't say anything about the Bible--if God somehow shut himself up forever in 100 AD, he would have said so to his prophets whose words would have been written down in the Bible. But he didn't, and as such Mormons are open to accepting claims of revelation on a case by case basis.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 12:12 pm
mrcolj wrote:
I just find it hard to believe, but possible, that there is a statistical insignificance to the number of search results for Mormons.

Hard to believe or not, that is what the evidence reveals.

Quote:
Of course there are more for Hindus or Muslims, or for Christianity in general, but there just seems to be also a lot that refer to Mormons, and mostly coming from a pretty agressive sarcastic slant..

Actually, given the overwhelmingly North American constituency of this board, and the predominant American representation among the membership, I would think it odd that Hinduism or Islam would receive less attention here than Moromonism - Now, Christianity, well, that's another thing altogether, and frequency of mention is just about a given, within the demographics of this board. As for aggressive, sarcastic slant, I believe you will find that confined to no particular faith-based belief set; all that receive mention receive not dissimilar treatment.

I was sorta surprised to see Voodoo get such short shrift, though, coming in so far behind Mormonism. The Flying Spaghetti Monster and/or permutations thereof has come up nearly as frequently ... while "water softener" and its direct permutations beats all 3.

Now, lets try a little thought excercize here ...

Demonstrate, objectively and in academically sound, forensically valid manner, that religious faith be differentiable from superstition.
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mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 12:21 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Demonstrate, objectively and in academically sound, forensically valid manner, that religious faith be differentiable from superstition.

That goes back to the old discussion of whether science is the end-all of knowledge, i.e. whether the things you mention above are necessary for true knowledge. If billions of people have witnessed the same things for thousands of years, is that not repeated observation? I have seen things which you could not explain away. Yet I cannot conjure them out of a hat (the rabbit would get in the way) and email it to you, so there is fundamentally no scientific answer to your question any more than you can provide metaphysical proof that 1+1=2.
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 01:58 pm
Does this belongs to here?

Franck Apisa wrote:
To all the fukin' morons of the world:

I apologize

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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 04:07 pm
DrewDad, I've always thought you were one of the best and brightest, but that spotting of the extra "M" was pure genius. Your mind has laser-like abilities to see the extraneous. You may have coffee and cookies even if you don't join the revolution, just make you way to the Gandhi room. You might even find some of my famous Alice B. Toklas brownies...
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 05:25 pm
mrcolj wrote:
And the earth being 10,000 years old; that's hit and miss with religious people too, but definitely not a Mormon thing. The number of people who believe in evolution is directly correlated to religiosity within Mormonism, and that's pretty rare. The number of people who believe in evolution upon graduating BYU is like 76% if I recall. So there's not a huge movement to say the earth was created 6,000 years ago. The Bible however does attribute that human history as we know it began roughly 6,000 years ago. But the whole idea that the seven days of creation could have been 10M years apiece is a very common one.

neologist wrote:
Well. mrcolj, could you explain why it would be necessary for Jesus to reappear after the bible was complete? Other than in the time of the end, that is.

Because the Bible doesn't say that he wouldn't. He can appear whenever and wherever he wants, and does and did. See, the fundamental thing is that the Bible doesn't say anything about the Bible--if God somehow shut himself up forever in 100 AD, he would have said so to his prophets whose words would have been written down in the Bible. But he didn't, and as such Mormons are open to accepting claims of revelation on a case by case basis.
How many times did Jesus die?
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EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 09:36 pm
You know how there is that Muslim Q&A thing, i think we need one for mormons, start asking some question to unravel some mysteries.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 09:51 pm
mrcolj wrote:
Okay, if the main flaw in my logic was that I didn't expect the number of people who would take "always" and "every" literally, I'm doing okay. No, I'm not arguing that 100% of the topics on this board, including Craven's inestimable SEO mod, secretly mentions Mormons. I just find it hard to believe, but possible, that there is a statistical insignificance to the number of search results for Mormons. Of course there are more for Hindus or Muslims, or for Christianity in general, but there just seems to be also a lot that refer to Mormons, and mostly coming from a pretty agressive sarcastic slant. I'm never offended, that's not my personality, but always surprised at how fast and/or spontaneously reasonable discussions devolve into sarcasm, especially springboarding into "Mormon" legends. So again, I guess 10 out of 50,000 posts isn't statistically significant.


Well... welcome to A2K... you are now in the initiation phase... it lasts... ummm... well the entire duration of your stay here. Very Happy Helpful hint #1: say what you mean and mean what you say, because you will get called on it. LOL

Quote:
Quote:
Do the mormons believe that God is up in heaven having sex 24/7 in order to birth "spiritual babies" to be put in the "physical babies" that are being born here on earth? Just curious.

Of course not. And I am not being paranoid here when I say I rarely believe questions like that come from just being curious. Smile Nevertheless, as with most religions of any sort we believe that we are all children of our Heavenly Father. We believe very literally that God has a body, and that families are an organizational structure that exists in the afterlife. People who distort beliefs for gain love to insist that logically we therefore must believe God has sex and women are pregnant and whatever, but those accusations aren't based on any exclusively Mormon ideas.


Welcome to my world mrcolj. Smile I am one of your "rarely" cases. No motive here other than to try to understand what Mormons believe. I read that in a book once and you should have seen the looks on the faces of the first two mormons who came to my door that I asked about that. They started spitting and sputtering and demanding to know where I "heard" that. Then huffed away on their bikes. It was rather disheartening, I must say. So, may I ask how long you have been a Mormon?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Jun, 2006 10:52 pm
I wouldn't be worrying about what the secularists on A2K think of Mormonism, I would be worried about what the Catholics and the Protestants thinks of Mormonism. I don't think they have any belief in Mormonism other than Christ existed and, to my experience, aren't very tolerant of it -- no worry, the Catholics aren't very tolerant of the Episcopaleans. Now I wonder where that could have come from? Christians can't agree with one another, how does one expect them to understand a repulsion towards religion? It could make one get involved with Scientology. Now I wonder where that came from?
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 04:13 am
yeah, add me to that rarely list with hep....when I ask a question, it's just because I want to know.
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mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 08:05 am
hephzibah wrote:
No motive here other than to try to understand what Mormons believe.
Chai Tea wrote:
yeah, add me to that rarely list with hep....when I ask a question, it's just because I want to know.

I appreciate that. I know most people are just curious, or, ideally want to know whether there are answers in Mormonism that they've not found elsewhere. When I said earlier that a great deal of people with very intelligent, very targeted questions are asking them with an egging-on tone, i.e. just to tease me (not knowing I'm not easily teased). My personal discussion board has people everyday pretending to ask legit questions, but if you follow their IP or google their screenname or whatever, you'll instantly find they're antimormon trolls. I was a missionary in Texas, and was very familiar with people calling with questions who were actually shills paid by other churches. One pentecostal church in Bastrop assigned their members to follow us, physically drive behind us, 24/7; and whomever we visited they'd go in right after to "save" those people "from" us. There really are a lot of those people--and undoubtedly we will see one on this board soon... Just watch... Wink

neologist wrote:
How many times did Jesus die?

Once. When I said he's appeared to people, I didn't mean that meant he was reborn physically or re-atoned for the sins of men. When I said I believe Jesus and angels have visited places and people around the world, I simply meant that he is resurrected, and can visit whomever and wherever he wants. That's what most Christians believe.

hephzibah wrote:
I read that in a book once and you should have seen the looks on the faces of the first two mormons who came to my door that I asked about that.

I'm not the kind of guy who ever gets offended by anything. (I may, however, answer some questions in a Private Message instead of publicly.) Part of that's personality (ENFP), part of that's Bay Area (Marin), part of that's Mormonism. I heard someone once call us the Buddhists of Christianity, meaning we're generally so mellow and classically skeptic about religion--I expect people to think religious people are crazy until God tells them otherwise. That's why we always get frustrated when people confuse our missionaries with some of the others--the Mormons aren't the ones debating or arguing using some amateur historical and literary analysis, we're the ones who hang out encouraging you to pray for yourself and see where God tells you to go.

hephzibah wrote:
So, may I ask how long you have been a Mormon?

My dad was a rebellious Mormon from SLC and my mother was a hispanic Catholic. They were married for years before she had ever heard the word 'Mormon.' So early in my life I recall when my father would drink and smoke and have a huge temper. My mother then started going to a church, and pretty coincidentally chose a Mormon one... she was active for years before she was baptized, and years beyond that before my father started going. Now they're both humanitarian missionaries in Albania. But I was baptized when I was 8 and went with my mother for years before that. So I'm kinda' a convert and kinda' born into it, depending on how you count it.

Yes, we could start a permanent thread of people asking questions, or we could rename this thread... I'm up--there'd have to be more than one Mormon here (which there is, they've PMed me over time), and it would have to be reasonably moderated to make sure I'm not just responding to someone's list of Top Ten Ways to Fight Mormons, which is how those discussions always end up. But able2know is always really good at having a lot of moderators.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 08:42 am
I've got another question for you mrcolj....now that you know my intentions are pure :wink:

but I'm really busy right now, so I might not get to post it until tonight....
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 08:46 am
Are we still bashing Mormons, or do we have to be polite to them now?

Hey, Boss, tell me about the Central America scam in the Book of Mormon.
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mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 09:04 am
Setanta wrote:
Hey, Boss, tell me about the Central America scam in the Book of Mormon.

I honestly don't know precisely what you're asking about. The Book of Mormon was written by the pre-Colombian inhabitants of America, mostly between 600 BC and 400 AD. Archaeologists who have theories generally consider it being Central America--I took a lot of pre-Colombian History classes while getting a minor in Spanish Teaching, and they discussed a lot of these theories. And, like I said, my wife's father was a professor of Biblical Archaeology at Hebrew University who lived in Chile before that. Anyway, if that's your question, yes, the Book of Mormon happened in America somewhere, and Joseph Smith was the translator.

The fundamental thing, as mentioned earlier, is that we believe that God loves everyone, and spoke to many people throughout the world, not just to a group of a few hundred thousand in Israel. Speaking to one small group is arbitrary and almost racist. It is more reasonable that he would have sent separate prophets to America or to many other places, especially before telephones and televisions existed. The Book of Mormon claims to be a history of one of those groups, but, as I said earlier, there's no way except personal revelation to actually know; and one would be ridiculous to act on it without being told by God in some way that it's true. I mean, I could prove to you the Trojan War happened--that doesn't mean that you should worship Zeus.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 09:09 am
mrcolj wrote:
Okay, if the main flaw in my logic was that I didn't expect the number of people who would take "always" and "every" literally, I'm doing okay. No, I'm not arguing that 100% of the topics on this board, including Craven's inestimable SEO mod, secretly mentions Mormons. I just find it hard to believe, but possible, that there is a statistical insignificance to the number of search results for Mormons. Of course there are more for Hindus or Muslims, or for Christianity in general, but there just seems to be also a lot that refer to Mormons, and mostly coming from a pretty agressive sarcastic slant. I'm never offended, that's not my personality, but always surprised at how fast and/or spontaneously reasonable discussions devolve into sarcasm, especially springboarding into "Mormon" legends. So again, I guess 10 out of 50,000 posts isn't statistically significant.

Indeed. It's nothing about which to get your undies ... or, rather, your temple garment ... in a bunch.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 09:09 am
The fundamental thing, as far as i'm concerned, is that the Book of Mormon is horsie poop, with an enteraining, but thoroughly unreliable account of the ancient Americas, whether one stipulate Central America, or another part of the two continents. It is historically false, bearing no relationship to any reputable archaeological evidence, and it is geographically false, making alusions to Central American geography which are demonstrable invalid.

To that extent, it is not sillier than other religious scripture. It is, nonetheless, silly.
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mrcolj
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 10:32 am
See, that's where honest communication breaks down. Both responses were just aimed at making fun of me, and neither demonstrated enough intelligence or background in the subject to be taken seriously at all.

Had joefromchicago pretended to be sincerely asking a question, we could continue the conversation.

Had Setanta levied specific questions, someone would take him seriously. As it stands, we assume he's a glorified high school kid with no background in religion, history, or anything else that would help in the analysis of his statements. He just makes blanket statements about how The Book of Mormon is unreliable, historically false, geographically false, and demonstrably invalid; without any backup. Well, but 12M people disagree, and as I said earlier, Mormonism is about the only religion where there is a strong and positive correlation between education and religiousness. That means, statistically, the more educated you are, the more likely you are to believe in it...
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jun, 2006 10:42 am
mrcolj wrote:

Had Setanta levied specific questions, someone would take him seriously. As it stands, we assume he's a glorified high school kid with no background in religion, history, or anything else that would help in the analysis of his statements. He just makes blanket statements about how The Book of Mormon is unreliable, historically false, geographically false, and demonstrably invalid; without any backup. Well, but 12M people disagree, and as I said earlier, Mormonism is about the only religion where there is a strong and positive correlation between education and religiousness. That means, statistically, the more educated you are, the more likely you are to believe in it...

Interesting, Very Interesting.
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