Finally, men talk about their penises.

Bernie, as I read your post, I was thinking "Bernie is the only man I know who could be this open about his sexuality and early experiences." Ever since I have been reading your posts, I've been amazed at how open and comfortable you are around women. You are one of those men who truly loves women and it shows in the way you write. That is why so many women on a2k are a little bit in love with you and envious of Lola.

I think a lot of first sexual experiences are same-sex. That is when the experimentation starts--before girls and boys are old enough to date. It was probably more common in our generation, when there were so many more restrictions and taboos, especially for children in religious families.

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I hope it continues.

(Forgive me for editing, but I want to be able to look at parts of this again while I write.)

What you have written, CodeBerg, is haunting.

As a woman, my first inclination is to say that since we have been living in a male-dominated culture for thousands of years, men have obviously brought this on themselves. However, I am not sure that is completely true. As women, we have raised our sons to behave this way, and we have tolerated if not condoned the emotional repression.

Diane, I empathize with your relationship with your husband. Mine is similar, although we have been married only 20 years. He is a wonderful man...thoughtful, kind and intelligent. However, he is often quite unaware of himself emotionally. When I occasionally bring his emotional reactions to his attention, he is confused and sometimes angry. Because so many men are taught that showing emotion is a sign of weakness, he likely misinterprets my remarks as criticism. So I just don't don't mention it anymore. But I am trying to provide a better emotional environment for my son. I don't know how much difference it will make, though, because I suspect his dealings with his peers will have more influence.

So...my questions are...how can we, as women, help to change this? Or can we? Is it up to men themselves (collectively) to reject their teachings, and is it realistic to expect that they can?

Blatham...bless you. A breath of fresh air!

penis spotting

I so wish I had time to stop and comment here. I'll never catch up. But I cannot now. Must work. But I must say, before I go, that super masculine vulnerability is so appealing to me. Early same sex introductions to sex are very common. I think most men and many women discover the magnificient sensations of the sexual response in this way. Blatham has started the ball rolling, let's hear from some other willing men out there. I may fall in love with all of you.

Reading Blatham's initiation to the orgasm and the Big Thrill makes me smile. I can remember a bunch of us 14 year olds on the school sportsfield comparing our penile attributes and the appropriate bragging. I'll never forget the first wet dream I had. I woke up feeling this almighty surge in my penis and the sudden burst of seed seemed to go everywhere.
In my early teens, I, like most young males masturbated coz it's fun, relaxing and seeing how big your penis gets is all part of growing up.

Reading Blatham's initiation to the orgasm and the Big Thrill makes me smile. I can remember a bunch of us 14 year olds on the school sportsfield comparing our penile attributes and the appropriate bragging. I'll never forget the first wet dream I had. I woke up feeling this almighty surge in my penis and the sudden burst of seed seemed to go everywhere.
In my early teens, I, like most young males masturbated coz it's fun, relaxing and seeing how big your penis gets is all part of growing up.

John, thanks for both replies from London!

Interesting thread. I'm not greatly surprised by the 'published' stories. I had a discussion with a very good female friend which was similar to the gringo story.

She dated an Indian guy, who was shocked the first time he saw here nipples. They were pink...he'd only ever seen brown nipples before. (She has pale skin, btw). She said in return that she'd been fairly surprised the first time she'd encountered an un-circumcised penis...not her experience in the US before that!

So what about me (and my mini-me)?

Well, I'm uncut and glad. I can go into that if you want, but I'd just rather leave things as nature intended.

I think I'm plenty big enough for most women (that's not bragging, just what I reckon, based on stats, measurement and female reactions)...what you must understand is that most women have probably seen many more erect penises than men have. Most men have been in the showers after sport and have an idea of comparison, but we've all been told that the change in size with erection makes those comparisons irrelevant!

I've once been told that it's beautiful...by the woman who taught me that sex could be 'just for fun'.

I love it. It gives me great pleasure and is one of my best means of giving pleasure. I love the feeling of having that part of me actually inside a woman...so intimate.

I don't give it a name and don't make it "him", either...it's just a part of me...the same me that is my consciousness, my body and mind. I don't call my hand 'he'...why my penis?

I liked the 'dynamo' reference earlier. I've found that (with good sex) there comes a point at which my mind tunes out and my body is all that matters. The centre of this energy is my penis, of course. That's where the energy seems to come from...and where it ends up being dissipated!

Any questions, I'm happy to take, but I may decide that pm's are a more appropriate place to answer.

I've just realise that my post doesn't deal with any of the non-sexual experiences...I'll think about that one.

For those of you who would like to reread the stories I copied from Salon, they can be found on pages 5, 11 and 12.

KP, your story has many similarities to some of the stories from Salon; men finding out that thier penises are a vitally integral part of who they are, to their identity as men. They not only receive pleasure, but they love knowing they can give pleasure to women.

Were any of you surprised at the man who wanted a sex change, yet, when it came time to have his penis removed, he began to realize how much his whole being was connected to having a penis? It was part of his being, his persona; even though he didn't want to be a man, he had difficulty making the decision. It makes sense, now that I have read the stories, but I wouldn't have given it a second thought before reading the articles.

I feel a little silly not knowing much about this, especially at my age, but I haven't been around men who talk freely. As Viz said, after a few years, you stop asking your husband to talk and just accept the fact that he is incapable of that kind of openess.

The openess on this thread has been an idication of the quality of conversation on a2k and the kind of people who are willing to discuss intimate topics with respect--humor too, which is fine--we need a little lightening up with this kind of topic--sex, after all, can be very funny!

"and seeing how big your penis gets" says OldandKnew. Very interesting that a boy's penis is sometimes thought of as "other", "not me" - something somehow apart from self. And that it is taken back and incorporated into self as he ages?

Maybe not. But it is apparent that men have a relationship with their penis to a far greater extent than do women with their clitoris or vagina.

Well, that makes sense to me. It's much more thing-ish -- there, in the way, difficult to avoid, changing sizes. I'd imagine vaginas are much less obtrusive, comparitively speaking.

Soz, I was thinking the same thing. The only things women have that are "right out there" are breasts, which can be full of sensation, but they aren't necessary for sex. (Although women who have mastectomies feel an important part of what makes them women has been removed).

I think those comments (re 'other' or thing apart) do speak to a significant difference between genders. Augustine, who is responsible - arguably moreso than any other single figure in Western culture - for the oppression of human sexuality, concluded that because his penis acted outside of Augustine's own volition (and even in opposition to it) that it was representative of the animalistic/satanic. As it happens, I think so too, but don't consider that is a bad thing.

Diane, I'm not sure the people on A2K are necessarily any more open...it's just a whole lot easier to write about intimate issues in a relatively anonymous forum than it is to talk about them with a real live person in front of you.

And...the anonymity is not a bad thing, either.

I've just been reminded of a story from my student days. My days as a MEDICAL student...

Our dissection classes were conducted in a large, cool, hall. Lots of light, a slight smell of preserving fluid - but much less pungent than formaldehyde. We were arranged in groups of 5 or 6 around each body, and worked in these groups throughout the academic year.

There's a spooky story about the man who we dissected at my table, but that's not penis-related! So I'll tell the one that is...

My dissection comrades were one man and three women. We all mucked in and did our bit. One of the women was more delicate with picking out nerves, etc. so we usually let her do that. Otherwise we all did some of everything. Until it came to dissection of our man's reproductive organs.

The other man and I looked at each other, with a common understanding of the difficulty we would have in cutting into a penis - a real one, dead now, but one with which this man had lived all his long life. We couldn't do it ourselves so we just said: "Girls, have your fun...we'll just see it when it's done".

I'm glad I did that. I would have found it fairly traumatic...no, not nightmares...but there was a real sense that the other guy and I would not want to perform this symbolic cut.

Just a sense of the relationship we men hold with our penises...actually, holding is a good word to use - so often true! :wink:

kp

Perhaps the only less agreeable scenario here would have been if the lady, with eyes brightly aglint, had then set to her task with the zest of a Japanese steakhouse chef.

I have to point out that they didn't hold back - though none was visibly having a great time!

It is, it seems to me, easier to believe a penis is acting without the man's consent than it is to see the woman's reproductive organs in this light. I was quite recently relating to a friend a story about myself on a date in my very early dating years. I was 15 and on a date at the drive-in. It was the first instance in which I had engaged in "heavy petting" which actually consisted of lots of kissing, feeling and talking. When I got home, I was surprised and puzzled to find the back of my full skirt to be quite wet. I didn't know why. It certainly never occurred to me that any part of me had done that, and certainly not me, all of me.

Obviously Augustine was trying to say (to make the claim) that his penis acted outside of Augustine's own volition in an effort to disown his own desires for sexual gratification. How easy it was to say it was his penis "acting" when really, as much as we joke about a penis having it's own brain, it's only funny when we understand how untrue this really is. Without the visible thingness of a penis, it is, I think easier for women to claim complete ignorance. "I don't know what happened."

I do have a story however which proves that this is not always or completely the case. When my daughter was young enough to still be wearing a diaper, probably around 15 months or so, she began to play with her vagina and labia during diaper changes. She would stick her finger into her vagina and look at me (or whoever was doing the changing) and say, "Mine!" She did this every time she was changed. She seemed to have a real sense of ownership in something that was hers.

It wasn't long btw before I discovered why my skirt was so wet that Spring night at the drive-in movie. I soon had occasion to recognize the usefulness of this phenomenon. And when I did, I don't think I ever thought it was anyone but myself causing it. I knew and still do know that it's my own desire. However, I find that it's often fun to pretend that I don't..............

Oh, and btw, it may be easier or even fun for some women to cut on cadaver's penises, I don't know, but for this woman, it makes me completely uncomfortable and wish we wouldn't think about it anymore. :-)

KP, okay, first, the spooky story....was the guy still alive?

Second, I have heard that the Yakuza insert small pearls in their penises, 1 for every kill, and that they are heavily tattoed all over....would that have made the experience worse, having to remove all those small rocks before getting down to business?