Finally, men talk about their penises.

SunBathingSyndrome. Many men and women strip off all their clothing, except for one teeny weeny piece of cotton, that is designed to provide them with at least one atom of modesty. Life on the beach, cultivating the perfect suntan that is meant to compliment the perfect curvy shape or the well honed 6 pack plus bulge. But what about the "white patch". The Achilles heel of SBS. Would people whip off the one atom of modesty with pride or embarrasment ?

I've never bothered with SBS, boredom sets in very quickly. The only 6 pack I've had came from the beer alley in the supermarket and the bulge is a pack of cigarettes and a Zippo in my pocket.

I'll smoke to that, John

Ah, my, Diane, and to think that you took me to task when I called Frank Sinatra a prick...

Oooohhh Letty, and he enjoyed every moment of his prickdom, hehe!

Ya reckon, Misti? Well, at least he didn't die shoveling snow. Er, I think the censors just got us....

Hey Letty, are we being bad?

Uh, cav, just where do you need to gain 8 lbs?
Soz, I was thinking about the fact that men tend to bare more of their bodies in everyday life. I wonder if women are pictured nude more often is related to the control men have in society? Not as much now, but certainly 30 years ago. They don't mind using women for nude photos, but not men, unless it is for gay magazines.

How did all of you respond to the stories? Were you surprised, touched, sympathetic, etc.?

Letty, I agreed with you about Frank Sinatra, but was surprised to hear you call him a prick! That sounds more like me than our own sweet Letty. (I think he was too much a wuss to shovel snow).

Oak, your questions were just fine!

Ahh Diane...8 lbs. to lose...we men are conscious of these things too ya know...

Actually Diane, to address the real topic of the thread, I thought the stories were quite interesting, except I just wouldn't want to hang out with any of the dudes who gave the interviews....guys do talk about their penises with other guys, whether they want to admit it or not, straight or gay, but doing it in public is a little weird for most of us. Here is a question: 'The Vagina Monologues' pretty much inspired a lot of women to a positive powerful feeling regarding their sex, but women have been traditionally denigrated by their sex, so it was a necessary thing, IMO. Men have always had the upper hand, historically, so I am trying to get into the head of this guy who started the penis monologues....couldn't it just be a typical male reaction to something they wish they had thought of first?

Cav, good point about the interviewer wishing he had thought of the idea before The Vagina Monologues were produced.

Why wouldn't you want to hang out with the guys who agreed to the interview? Is that a guy thing?

I wouldn't mind hanging out with women who were in The Vagina Monologues or with women who had agreed to talk about their vaginas for a magazine article, as long as the interview was done with taste and respect.

For me, to read such a personal interview was a revelation. I found myself respecting the men who participated because of their honesty and apparent lack of ulterior motive. I think this openess is healthy and should be encouraged. The more men and women understand each other, the more likely it is that they will have a relationship with real acceptance and empathy.

Heh heh, I think it's a guy thing Diane....I have a feeling most guys would be more comfortable watching 'Puppetry of the Penis' than reading the penis stories...I think women in general are just more comfortable talking...I think to a guy, if your best guy friend talks about his penis to you, and then, as an example, goes and does an interview about it, a guy would just be thinking "oh dude...what was up with that..." Mind you, it would be a total opportunity to make fun of him...I think most guys are playing at things, I don't trust them, so I look for the hidden agenda always, cuz I'm a guy...if Mrs. cav and I have a daughter, god help the boyfriends she brings home, lol!

I started reading on page 13, but it is apparent that I need to go back to the very beginning. I'll be back.

dickmarking

First off, society treats men as a tool, a piece of meat that produces work. Taking a shirt off is completely non-sexual, easy to do because the guy is hard at work. He must earn a place in society to be part of society at all. He must produce something (other than himself) of value or he's useless.

Second, if a man is completely naked it doesn't matter how ugly or beautiful he is. Any guy caught looking at him is labelled and attacked, viciously. Sometimes killed. Homophobia is so strong that people alter their behavior hundreds of times a day, in small and subtle ways, just so they won't be attacked. It is so, so much safer and simpler to just paint or sculpt a woman. Not because men are in control of the art world (those evil men!) but because the art world is in control of men.

Empirically, mens' bodies are not beautiful, just by the fact that women don't publicly announce their appreciation. Men are blamed far more than they are encouraged or praised. And it's considered rude(!) to look at someone and whistle.

But if a woman is naked it's quite different. It is pure heaven, softness and love, warmth and emotion, the end-all and be-all, the ultimate reason why men work and struggle and acheive great things. With a woman, finally a place where someone might not be attacked! A comfortable place. The only place in the universe with such utter beauty, humanity, and acceptance. The only place where emotions are allowed and just "being" is okay. We can pretend we have intrinsic value just as we are. Acceptance and safety. Finally a place we can let go, and just rest. Home.

That's not even a very beautiful woman. And the woman doesn't have to actually do anything at all, just sit there and be a woman.

Why the discrepancy? What do men have to do to get someone to even talk with us? Really talk, as human beings? Call me twisted for believing that sexism against men is more widespread and crippling than sexism against women. But it has been my experience and the experience of at least a few others.

Over the years, I've held over thirty men in my arms, as they cried like a baby about this very thing. (Held as a friend, as a listener, someone who cares, that's all ... I'm very straight). All I did was ask them how they are. I really asked them and I really listened. Three of those thirty are now dead, killed themselves because they were so lonely in a male-bashing world. That's what they were crying about. What DO we have to do?

Many men have no problem opening up with women, or a woman. They're "supposed" to, and it's what many of us dream about. But to expose a penis in public, to talk about it to a mixed crowd, where other men are? The conditioning is strong. The emotional complications and well-founded defenses make it simpler to just avoid all persecution.

Brag or joke, be a crass man, but don't be human until you get safely home.

Yes, Misti, we were being baaaaaaaaadddddddddd. Diane knows, however that we were doing girly giggles.

I'm sorry, Diane. No, I didn't read the article. Shame on me. I promise that I will.

codeborg, that was a very moving and articulate piece that you shared with us. Yes, society imposes roles on males and females and those expectations often lead to hopelessness.

codeborg, outstanding observation

I couldn't help but notice codeborg that you felt you had to add that you are straight when commenting on holding a man. Et tu brutus?

This IS an interesting thread.

As a single parent, I used to take my daughter to the local indoor pool once or twice a week, and we would both use the men's changing room. We did this until she was about four or five. One day, she suddenly stopped untying her laces or whatever it was she was doing, her gaze swept the room, and she exclaimed, "Look at all the penises!" (she's now 20, and I suspect that this youthful and innocent phrase might have as its contemporary translation, "Well, HELLO there sailor!").

There is some avoidance evident, isn't there? Little that matches the intimacy or vulnerability of the stories. This is a guy thing (and a cultural inhibition) and it's one of the reasons I tend to prefer the company of women - I love sexuality and my experience is that I am likely to learn much more about it from women than from men.

Yet I owe a debt to my own gender, because it was other boys who first taught me about the absolutely unexpected - and OVERWHELMING - range of sensations at this center of me. In various groups, or pairings, we would sneak away to a hayloft or a raspberry field or an empty barn, take our pants down around our ankles, and play with each other. It was, frankly, exquisitely exciting, to be touched, and to touch. We each fantacized about girls, but we thought it far too dangerous to be messing with them (girls tell), so it was with each other we had our first cock-fun.

Kevin gave me my first orgasm, downstairs at home in my bedroom. The conversation which preceded this was hilarious...

Kevin: "...and if you do it long enough, this white stuff comes out!" (he'd just been mentored by Bruno, the local bad boy, two years older and who had a beautiful cock)
Me: "What!!??"

When I began to feel the orgasm beginning, I told him to stop, because I thought I was going to pee. He said that was the way it felt. Then the freight train roared through me, toes to ears, and life changed.

I have absolutely no ill feelings about this introduction to sexuality. It was wonderful. And it taught me not just about myself, but also provided me with the opportunity to perceive, at least in part, some aspects of male physicality which arouse women. And, as an aroused woman nearbye is as good a reason for living as I know of, I owe a profound debt to those Mennonite boys and their cocks.



(soz...is sozlet well now?)

Wow. This thread has taken an interesting turn.

I see so many different levels here. One, quite apart from any male/ female issues, is a reticence to talk about sexuality too openly in this kind of a forum. There are people I'd happily talk to quite openly about it here, others I would prefer not to. A friend of mine who does not post here often recently referred to something I'd said here in an email, and I was like, "hey! I wasn't talking to you." Which is completely irrational -- this forum is open to the public, and anything I say is "talking to" everyone.

I'm reminded of how one of my interpreters felt, when we were chatting before a class in college, she up on "stage" next to where the professor would appear. She was telling me a funny but embarrassing story about a bad date. Suddenly she looked stricken, her gaze fixed on one of the hundred or so students already seated. That person had given indication that he knew ASL, and was following along with great amusement.

The guys who gave the interviews are anonymous in a way that people here are not, if they post under their usual username. Those guys have much more control over who knows that they are the person who said those specific things, over who can use that information in future interactions.

At any rate, I think that factor has to be taken into account when figuring out why men here are or are not responding. I've been impressed with CodeBorg's and Blatham's forthrightness.

Still mulling CodeBorg's post -- I agree with a lot of it and disagree with a lot of it. Will mull some more.

(Oh and yes the sozlet's fine now, thanks. It was a very intense 24-hour thing, and then another few days to recover from the effects, fine now.)

CodeBorg, I'm stunned at the beauty and honesty of your post.
Being married for almost 34 years to an honest, decent man who is also an emotional cripple, I truly understand what you are saying.

It used to make me furious that my husband didn't seem concerned about my feelings, until I finally realized that he couldn't show his concern. Sometimes at night, when I can't sleep, I look over at him and, instead of resenting his emotional distance, I simply feel tenderness for him and sympathy that he can't let himself show much emotion. It still drives me crazy at times, but after all these years, I've learned when to admit I'm beat.

Having raised two sons has also allowed me to experience what boys and men go through as they try to make sense of their world. There have been many times when they have come home and expressed confusion over what girls want, crying over their cluelessness. Then there is the very real danger of showing same-sex affection. Boys and men live with that kind of fear all thier lives.

I am a feminist. In my 60 years I've lived through the ugly sexism and the physical fear that women have to live with; things that feminists have fought so hard against. Yet if we don't acknowledge the universal pain of being human, regardless of sex, the polarization will remain. It shouldn't be about which sex is treated the worst; it should be about learning to understand and respect each other's differences. Those differences, after all, are what cause all those wonderful sensations and, as far as I'm concerned, should be celebrated.

Soz, glad the sozlet's all better.