Homes for unwed mothers.

sozobe wrote:

Interesting...!

I'm all for "hard core" parenting classes. Not if it would displace algebra or whatever, but why would it? It would certainly seem to have a place in a health class curriculum, or sex ed, or any of the other currently-existing slots.

I've seen lots of references to a curriculum that involves caring for a sack of flour for (a week?) -- keeping it with you all the time, etc. I think the sack is 10 pounds.

I have a master's degree in early childhood education and the parenting classes I took while pregnant were still a revelation. And after my M.Ed and the parenting classes I was still whapped upside the head by this and that (a continuing process...)

Something in high school that would have the double whammy of a) preventive ("this is what it's really like") and b) corrective ("but if it happens, this is how you do it") sounds great to me.

Not that I am suggesting the intent is misplaced but the question you might want to ask is not whether preaching to the choir has efficacy, but do the parenting lessons, as you believe they should be taught, reach the problematic target audience, with the efficacy (I gather) you believe is implicit and balance this against the state big brother consideration. BTW I mean state in the figurative sense, not literal as per boomerang's post.

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I think a preventive program would be better by educating young girls about getting involved in pre-marital sex. These are the following unappealing choices they have: a) abortion which forever haunt her mind b)give up baby for adoption and hope the child ends up in a good home c)keep the baby and see career dreams evaporate or struggle thru life bringing up this baby.

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Quote:

The more I think about this remarkable young woman's story the more I think she may be on to something.

I agree.

Seeing sex education actually take on MEANING in school would be wonderful.
It is still treated as 'hush hush' - don't talk about it, and defiantly don't do it-

Abstinence is still ( in most cases) being taught as the number one form of birth control to teenagers .

Well, YES abstinence is the perfect way to not have kids. But, we are talking about teenagers. And in a teenagers world, anal sex and blow jobs are not 'sex' either. You cant get pregnant the first time you have sex because your body is new to everything and it isn't ready. Espically if the guy doesn't go all the way in. But who would let a guy do that anyways? I mean.. yuck. Besides, if the guy just takes a hot bath his sperm are killed and he wont get you pregnant. And to be really smart, have him pull out. That is the perfect way to not get pregnant. But if he doesn't make it in time, just take a shower after words. Rinse it all off and you wont have a baby.

Rolling Eyes

If more teachers, politicians, PARENTS, and school staff would just realize that what I said above is truly what kids think about sex, and got their head out of their asses about being 'modest and pure according to popular religions' we might be able to give our kids a better start as a sexual being.

Sex is a fact of life . It needs to be treated as such.
When it is thrown to the wayside and treated as an embarassment and something you ' just shouldnt do right now'.. we have teenage pregnancies , unwanted pregnancies, and abandoned mothers and kids.

If our health classes were allowed to have a frank free discussion about sex.
If they had women with new babies in the classes to show the kids how much goes into them
Have teenagers visit birthing centers
Have them visit rape crisis centers , because that is about sex too..

Give them a complete picture of every aspect of sex.
( I had to edit here.. I wrote RAPE instead of SEX )Stop making them think that even in sex ed, you cant talk about sex.

Give them tools to have SAFE sex if they so choose, and get rid of the idea that if you don't talk about it, they wont have sex .
Or- if you TELL them not to, they wont have sex.

but i am ranting before my coffee kicks in.
Im sure everyone before me has said pretty much the same thing. Cool

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You said it well. I think we can in part point the finger to Puritanism and other misplaced morals.

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I definitely think it ought to be part of the sex education module.

Teach kids the realities - that babies aren't just sweet, smiling, smelling-of-baby-powder, looking cute and adoring you. They cry, fill nappies that you have to deal with, sometimes scream the house down for no reason you can work out and much as you adore them they are a lifetime committment with a lot of worry and grey hairs on the way!

Here some enlightened schools have a teenage single parent ex-pupil come in to talk to a class with their baby and talk about the realities - their loss of freedom and shortage of money and total 24 hour committment to someone else before themselves.

Too many children grow up with severe problems because of inadequate parenting.

With smaller families nowadays there isn't always the example of younger siblings or even cousins so that kids have first hand knowledge.

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I'm with shewolf- abstinence is a longshot. Sure, it is a great way to avoid all of the complications of sex and kids but not every kid is going to be abstinate. They never have been. They never will be. This is not some new thing kids do.

Vivien, in America, sex education is microscopic. Kids are not told anything other than "don't". You'll get pregnant, you'll get a disease. Sex is bad, bad, bad. How is it handled in England?

There is an interesting article in my paper today about a new book called "When You Were Fifteen". They talked to several prominent locals about their life when they were 15, focusing on the people who helped them along. Interestingly, of the three stories excerpted in the paper, not a single person credits their parents for being their motivating force.

You can read the whole book here, for free: http://www.whenyouwere15.org/

Or you can read the newspaper article here:
http://www.oregonlive.com/living/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/living/1149029781161880.xml&coll=7

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Our schools teach an abstinence only curriculum. Our church offers a sexually explicit 12 week program to 8th and 9th graders based on SIECUS Guidelines

Quote:

WHAT ARE THEIR PRIMARY GOALS?

The primary goal of sexuality education is the promotion of adult sexual health. It assists children in understanding a positive view of sexuality, provides them with information and skills about taking care of their sexual health, and helps them acquire skills to make decisions now and in the future. The Guidelines define the life behaviors of a sexually healthy adult. They are based on four primary goals:

Information
To provide accurate information about human sexuality, including growth and development, human reproduction, anatomy, physiology, masturbation, family life, pregnancy, childbirth, parenthood, sexual response, sexual orientation, contraception, abortion, sexual abuse, HIV/AIDS, and other sexually transmitted diseases.

Attitudes, Values, and Insights
To provide an opportunity for young people to question, explore, and assess their sexual attitudes in order to understand their family's values, develop their own values, increase self-esteem, develop insights concerning relationships with families and members of both genders, and understand their obligations and responsibilities to their families and others.

Relationships and Interpersonal Skills
To help young people develop interpersonal skills, including communication, decision-making, assertiveness, and peer refusal skills, as well as the ability to create satisfying relationships. Sexuality education programs should prepare students to understand sexuality effectively and creatively in adult roles. This would include helping young people develop the capacity for caring, supportive, non-coercive, and mutually pleasurable intimate and sexual relationships.

Responsibility
To help young people exercise responsibility regarding sexual relationships, including addressing abstinence, how to resist pressures to become prematurely involved in sexual intercourse, and encouraging the use of contraception and other sexual health measures. Sexuality education should be a central component of programs designed to reduce the prevalence of sexually-related medical problems; these include teenage pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases including HIV infection, and sexual abuse. SIECUS

While primarily intended for the youth of our own church we have had many referrals from area physicians, psychologists, and social workers who are working with kids participating in high-risk activities.

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boomerang wrote:

Vivien, in America, sex education is microscopic. Kids are not told anything other than "don't". You'll get pregnant, you'll get a disease. Sex is bad, bad, bad. How is it handled in England?

I think in Europe we are more open. Sex education is certainly covered along with demonstrations of condoms (using bananas and things!).

The attitude is still don't - but there's a realisation that this won't necessarily be listened to. As I said, some schools bring in a teenage single parent with her baby to explain reality and though she loves her baby, regrets and loss of career/freedom etc. Kids need the facts, not preaching to.

I remember 10 year olds at primary school having an in depth lesson.

In my day at Grammar School we tackled it in a purely scientific, academic way. (Grammar Schools and Secondary Modern Schools were what we had before schools became Comprehensive. If you passed the 11+ exam you went to Grammar School - more academic, if you failed you went to Sec Mod, more practically based)

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recently saw a TV program where kids were given the "real babies" ; they had to look after them for a whole week . those "real babies" sure were as difficult - if not more so - true babies , they screamed , they wet themselves ... the whole works .
a built-in micro-computer kept track of all the baby's and teenager's actions , so they couldn't just shut them into a cupboard overnight without the instructor knowing about it .
both girls and boys had to do 'their duty' - they certainly seemed pretty fed up with the experience of having to care for a baby .
the question that remained unanswered : what effect will it have when the hormones start raging one day - perhaps fuelled by some alcohol ?
but it is probbably better than just doing nothing to drive home the message : babies aren't toys , they must be cared for constantly .
hbg

(a recent report stated that teenage pregnancies for white girls are now outstripping those for black girls - pregnancies for black teenagers are a/t the report declining)

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Hey J_B! I remember you telling me about that program a while back. You even sent me some information on it. I was really impressed. I would think something like that would work very well within the school system.

hamburger, you bring up a really good point. I know adult women who already have kids who suddenly find themselves pregnant and are "surprised". They know all the rules and they still make mistakes.

What affect will it have is a good question indeed.

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One of the major problems is the cliché over emphasis of penis in vagina sex to the exclusion of many other relatively safer sexual activities.

Unless or until sex ed includes such things as how to give and receive oral sex, anal sex, mutual masturbatory sex, and the many other sexual techniques which do not rely on penis in vagina sex, young couples are going to preoccupy themselves with penis in vagina sex and the negative pregnancy issues that come from it.

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Re: Homes for unwed mothers.

boomerang wrote:

What do you think?

I think "hard core" parenting classes are a great idea. A lot more lives fail from incompetent parenting than from incompetent poem interpretation or improper application of the "rule of three". And since we're at it, I also don't get why people always go to marriage counseling after the marriage got in trouble. Why not have a highschool class where students go over the frequently occurring conflicts, and figure out how to solve them? I'd love classes like this..

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Interesting!

Everyone I know who went through counciling before their wedding benefitted from it. I think it makes you face up to things instead of glossing difference over while under the influence of true love.

Maybe a "Home and Family" class.....

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It's not that I am against counseling before their wedding per se but show me that such counseling is not simply preaching to the choir, and that these presumed benefits coalesce into a higher success rate because of the counseling benefits per se, and not from the fact that the couples are motivated to a potentially higher level of self improvement, and further that the counseling is not simply self fulfilling.

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I did not have pre-maritial counseling so I'm not speaking from experience. What I've heard is that they get you to discuss things you might never have considered.

Like....

Both people really want kids - what happens if you find out you are unable to conceive?

What is someone's family member falls ill and needs to come stay with you for a while?

What happens if one partner is offered a job halfway across the country?

Things that come up in those types of discussions can be real deal breakers.

Having a third party mediator can also help people feel (at the risk of psycho-babbling) "heard".

According to one friend - they learned to argue without fighting. That, to me, seems like a very good lesson.

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Chumly wrote:

show me that such counseling is not simply preaching to the choir, and that these presumed benefits coalesce into a higher success rate because of the counseling benefits per se, and not from the fact that the couples are motivated to a potentially higher level of self improvement, and further that the counseling is not simply self fulfilling.

I see your point, but I'm not sure trigonometry and calculus would pass the test you're proposing here. From my experience at high school reunions, math lessons were completely wasted on everyone but us nerds, who would have learned a lot about it outside of school anyway. That doesn't keep most people from believing that compulsory math lessons are a good idea. Neither should it keep them from at least considering classes in partnership and parenthood.

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thomas : i think you are right on !

an old friend on mine - i worked with him for 30 years - decided to become a deacon in the catholic church when he retired early (even though i retired early , i did not become a deacon !).
his main assignment was to lead "pre-matrimonial" education sessions .
couples attending his "training sessions" speak very highly of him . having been married himself , he could speak from experience .
unfortunately hiis wife died just a few years later .
at that time - he was already in his 60's - he decided to to go to seminary and become a priest .
when i asked him why he decided to become a priest at that age , he replied (with a smile on his face ) : "they make me do all the work ; i might as well get the benefits too ! ".
he is now 75 and still runs those classes and from what i hear , his "students" and the parish are very happy with him and hope he won't "retire" soon .
he is certainly what i would call "a good christian" - even though he is one mean piano-player and knows how to enjoy his pint (we shared many over the years !) .
hbg

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"Partnership and Parenthood" sounds like a class nearly every person could benefit from.

Hamburger, your priest friend reminds me of a Rabbi professor I had in college. Truly he was one of the most worldly and engaged people that I ever met. I guess you expect people like that to be somehow holy but they are unshockable, having heard nearly everything already.

In a strange way this reminds me of my old art school practical exams - the ultimate "fish or cut bait" test of knowledge.

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Thomas wrote:

Chumly wrote:
show me that such counseling is not simply preaching to the choir, and that these presumed benefits coalesce into a higher success rate because of the counseling benefits per se, and not from the fact that the couples are motivated to a potentially higher level of self improvement, and further that the counseling is not simply self fulfilling.
I see your point, but I'm not sure trigonometry and calculus would pass the test you're proposing here. From my experience at high school reunions, math lessons were completely wasted on everyone but us nerds, who would have learned a lot about it outside of school anyway. That doesn't keep most people from believing that compulsory math lessons are a good idea. Neither should it keep them from at least considering classes in partnership and parenthood.

I can't imagine partnership / parenthood / sex ed classes would do harm, and it's not like I have any objections to it in principle, outside of the "big brotherism" argument (and efficacy questions); the "big brotherism" argument applicability to partnership / parenthood / sex ed classes would be wholly dependant on the longer term turn of events as I touched on earlier as per parenting classes / homes for unwed mothers thusly.

Chumly wrote:

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Homes for unwed mothers.

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