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Fighter plane collision - new Greek-Turkish crisis ?

 
 
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 01:35 am
They are both NATO member!

Quote:
Greek and Turkish jets collide over Aegean Sea

By Daniel Howden
Published: 24 May 2006

Greek and Turkish fighter jets have collided over the Aegean Sea after shadowing each other through disputed airspace. Turkish authorities said that their own airman was rescued but the Greek pilot was killed.

Athens and Ankara have long been unable to resolve territorial disputes over the Aegean and these have frequently spilled over into the skies, with pilots engaging in mock dogfights on a daily basis.

As Nato allies, both Turkey and Greece patrol their skies with American F-16 jets and the interception manoeuvres, involving close-range fly-pasts at high speeds, have been a frequent source of protests.

Turkey claimed that the crash was the result of Greek interference in manoeuvres taking place in international airspace, but Greece claimed that the collision occurred after its own fighter was scrambled to intercept a Turkish jet over the island of Karpathos.

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul telephoned his Greek counterpart Dora Bakoyanni, who is visiting Helsinki, after the incident.

The Greek Foreign Ministry said in a statement: "The two foreign ministers expressed their regret for today's incident and agreed that this should not affect the two countries' efforts to improve their relations."

The response was a clear signal of how far both sides have come since a dispute over the rocky outcrop of Imia in the Aegean brought Greece and Turkey close to conflict in 1996, before mutual allies negotiated a climbdown.

Since then the Aegean neighbours have launched a series of confidence building measures that have seen regular high-level visits between the traditional foes and strong support from Greece for Turkey's bid to join the European Union.
But a solution to territorial disputes over the sea shelf in the Aegean has proved elusive and Turkey refuses to recognise Greece's claim to a 10-mile zone around its coast. Ankara recognises only a six-mile zone and insists it has the right to train in international airspace.

But the issue with the greatest potential to divide them is Cyprus. The Mediterranean island was split in 1974 after Turkish forces invaded and occupied the north in response to a Greek coup in the south in 1974.

The Greek-led south of the island is now a full member of the European Union and voted in 2004 to reject a UN-brokered reunification plan that would have seen power-sharing with a Turkish-Cypriot authority in the north. The Turkish north of the island, recognised only by Ankara, voted in favour of the plan drafted by the UN secretary general Kofi Annan and has complained since of being forcibly isolated by the wealthier south.

Greek-Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos, who led the "no" vote against the Annan plan, was re-elected at the weekend and has warned that he might be prepared to block EU accession talks with Turkey if Ankara will not agree to a peace deal more favourable to the Greek south of the island.

The government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara is already under pressure from secular forces, led in part by the Turkish military, on the one side and Islamists on the other.

Mr Erdogan, whose party has Islamist roots, has so far balanced those internal pressures, but the killing of a high court judge in a religiously motivated attack in Ankara last week, outlined the fault lines in Turkish politics.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,651 • Replies: 25
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 01:44 am
Frontpage of Kathimerini (Greek paper):

http://i4.tinypic.com/10i8mlx.jpg

Frontpage of Hurriyet (Turkish paper)

http://i4.tinypic.com/10i8n86.jpg
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 03:09 am
I just bet those pilots were playing chicken.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 05:16 am
dlowan wrote:
I just bet those pilots were playing chicken.


Well, usually you don't die when playing chicken.
Besides, the Turkish Greek differences have more sincerious than a play in the past. Sad

A good report/review at Wikipedia.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 May, 2006 05:37 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
dlowan wrote:
I just bet those pilots were playing chicken.


Well, usually you don't die when playing chicken.
Besides, the Turkish Greek differences have more sincerious than a play in the past. Sad

A good report/review at Wikipedia.


Oh, I know the animus....but, I still bet the pilots were doing the big boy version of chicken.
0 Replies
 
Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 04:47 am
I better not talk Mad .
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Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 May, 2006 07:29 am
Ellinas--

Talk away. You probably have information we don't.
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Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 10:40 am
Well really there are not many things to say. The airfights in the Aegean are something that is happening everyday something like this had to happen, and more crisis like these are to come because of the pathetic stance of the Greek goverment. Turkish jets are entering the Greek FIR every day without the license of the Greek goverment, and our pathetic goverment continues to have the same policy, including support for the possible Turkey's entrance to the EU.

Now about the current case, some IMPORTANT things were not mentioned in the text Walter posted. Every month or so, a Turkish mission with a photographing spying plane and some F-16s are making the root from a Turkish base across Rhodes to Crete, so they can have an eye on the Russian technology S-300 missile system which is installed in Crete. The anwser of the Greek goverment to that was silence till now. The accident happened while a couple of Greek F-16s were following the Turkish ones, having them in control, as they were fliying illegaly inside the Greek FIR. After the accident the leader of the Turkish armed forces Mr Ozkok ordered 7 Turkish planes to go immideately at the area. When they detected by the Hellenic armed forces, the leader of them Mr Chinofotis warned Ozkok that about 20 Greek jets are ready to go to the area too. Fortunately for all of us, logic won and they both agreed to bring back the jets to avoid the worst. After the Turkish pilot left his plane, he was very lucky to fall near a commercial ship with Panamese flag and Phillipino crew - in international waters. When the Greek resque team arrived in the area first, the Turkish pilot threatened them with his pistol, being afraid that he will be arrested by Greeks. He wanted Turks to take him, as according to them, they are responsible together with the Greeks for the resques in the whole East Aegean! According to some Turkish papers, a Turkish commando team which arrived later to the area, threated the unarmed Greek resque team with machineguns and said they will fire if the team doesn't leave! They later left of course. The Hellenic army was not involved at all this moment. Anyway the Greek goverment after this incident said that their support for Turkish EU prospect is not permanent. Also the president of the Hellenic republic warned Turkey.

Even if the goverments and media of both Greece and Turkey are trying to underrate the event and cool things down, the armies ob the two countries have a different opinion - they are in a RED ALERT right now. The situation is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND DANGEROUS. It looks like this is one of the biggest crisis we have with Turkey the last 20 years, after Imia and Sismik. Next month or two are very critical, I hope everything goes well, I especially hope Greek pilots in the Aegean keep their nerves cool.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 11:11 am
I've suspected similar - had had some euqual nasty OWN experiences in 1970 re the GDR navy (while being in the Federal German Navy on one of their ships).

Sad
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 11:18 am
Ellinas--

Thank you. I learned from your post.
0 Replies
 
Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:11 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
Ellinas--

Thank you. I learned from your post.


Well, the Greek-Turkish relations are a really long story. There is not enough time to explain all. If are curious about something spesific feel free to ask me.
0 Replies
 
Letty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:19 pm
Yes, a learning thread. Bookmarking, Walter
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:19 pm
When I was growing up, "They get along like the Greeks and the Turks" was not simply colorful language.
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Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:23 pm
Noddy24 wrote:
When I was growing up, "They get along like the Greeks and the Turks" was not simply colorful language.


Very Happy I didn't knew the use of this quote. Where are you from?
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smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:26 pm
This concerns me....
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 12:52 pm
Ellinas--

I heard about the Greeks and the Turks in the '40's and '50's growing up in Western Pennsylvania in the USA. My home town didn't have many Greeks or Turks, but my father was a newspaper man and both my parents--and the rest of the extended family--kept up on world affairs.
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Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 04:32 am
3 Turkish "photographers" arrested 2-3 days ago while taking photos outside the military base of Souda in Crete. They were released the same day, but are they are in the "list" of the Greek authorioties now.
Also an incident happened near the small island of Imia again a skirmish (without the use of gunfire fortunately) between Turkish a Turkish frigate and Greek fishing boats.

Lastly, the people's presence at the yesterday's funeral of the Greek pilot Costas Iliakis was impressing. He had all the honours of a national hero. The president of the Hellenic Republic and some members of the Greek goverment were there. The same time of the funeral, Turkish jets entered again illegally the Greek FIR in the Aegean.

It looks like the crisis continues.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jun, 2006 02:13 pm
Dlowan might be right--the Greeks and the Turks are playing Chicken on an deadly playing field.

Lord, what fools we mortals be.
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Ellinas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 03:08 am
What is happening is unbelievable. We have a "storm" of incidents.

Greek tanker collided with Turkish vessel. The Turkish sunk, the Greek had no damage as it was carrying petroleum and the walls were thick.

http://news.ert.gr/en/6/18313.asp
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/06/01/greece.ship.reut/index.html

This incident happened close to the Greek mainland, just 20 kilometers far from the island of Hydra. 7 Turks resqued, 1 found dead, 5 are missing are the latest info.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jun, 2006 12:24 pm
Ellinas--

This sounds more like stupidity than deliberate provocation, but tempers must be running high.
0 Replies
 
 

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