Mrs. Betty Bowers is the First to Review "The Da Vinci Code"

Of course, no school ever asks for an IQ on an application.

Merry Andrew, Lightwizard -- I went to a dinner party a couple of weeks ago and heard a woman expounding upon DVC as though it were an intellectual tome.

If there is anything about the movie business that I truly hate, it the Monday morning report on the gate. Ugh! As though we should be thrilled that people forked over money to watch this stuff. Really prefer second run houses, like Arlington's Capital Theatre and the Somerville Theatre in Davis Square.

Mr. Miller- This is not the topic of the thread but since you asked about the top twenty law schools( as listed by the US News and World Report)
they are:

l. Yale 2. Stanford 3. Harvard 4. Columbia 5. NYU 6. U. of Chicago 7. U. of Penn 8. U. of Calif-Berkeley 9. U. of Michigan- Ann Arbor 10. U. of Virginia 11. Duke 12. Northwestern 13. Cornell 14. UCLA 15. Vanderbilt 16. George Washington U. 17. U, of Minnesota 18. Washington U.- St.Louis 19.; Boston U. 20. University of Iowa.

And Mr. Miller, Plain Ol Me is correct, no one ever asks for an IQ when they get a job, but they know that in order to get into any one of these law schools one needs to have a very good GPA in a good undergraduate school and A VERY GOOD SCORE ON THE LSAT which correlates with IQ.

But, Plain Ol Me says in Post No. 2098286 that when she graduated new lawyers were hired at $12,000 per year.

Possibly, if the lawyers were from the hick law firms and IF Plain Ol Me is talking about the 1930's.

Many of Today's lawyers FROM THE TOP TWENTY LAW SCHOOLS are hired by the top 100 law firms at a starting salary of $135,000 a year. The average equity Partner in the top 100 law firms makes $800,000 a year

They do not read the scurrilous fiction called the DaVinci Code and they certainly do not waste their time going to the movie version!!!

Miller -- Of course, the so-called Top Twenty law schools change annually as they trade faculty members back and forth.

Also, although we know from his days as Massagatto on abuzz that BernardR has to be a man in his 60s (at least!), law school grads in Detroit in 1972 could look to earn $12,000 to start. Teachers earned $8,000 and a reporter for either of the two dailies, $10,000. The figures were probably slightly higher for Chicago and about a grand higher each for NYC and LA. In Cleveland, the amounts would be lower.

The sort of money a freshly admitted to the bar attorney can earn today really reflects the diminished buying power of the dollar. We could go into that but why derail this thread any more?

Since it is obvious that either Plain Ol Me does not know how to read or is incapable of rebutting arguments, I will repost my previous post:

Mr. Miller- This is not the topic of the thread but since you asked about the top twenty law schools( as listed by the US News and World Report)
they are:

l. Yale 2. Stanford 3. Harvard 4. Columbia 5. NYU 6. U. of Chicago 7. U. of Penn 8. U. of Calif-Berkeley 9. U. of Michigan- Ann Arbor 10. U. of Virginia 11. Duke 12. Northwestern 13. Cornell 14. UCLA 15. Vanderbilt 16. George Washington U. 17. U, of Minnesota 18. Washington U.- St.Louis 19.; Boston U. 20. University of Iowa.

And Mr. Miller, Plain Ol Me is correct, no one ever asks for an IQ when they get a job, but they know that in order to get into any one of these law schools one needs to have a very good GPA in a good undergraduate school and A VERY GOOD SCORE ON THE LSAT which correlates with IQ.

But, Plain Ol Me says in Post No. 2098286 that when she graduated new lawyers were hired at $12,000 per year.

Possibly, if the lawyers were from the hick law firms and IF Plain Ol Me is talking about the 1930's.

Many of Today's lawyers FROM THE TOP TWENTY LAW SCHOOLS are hired by the top 100 law firms at a starting salary of $135,000 a year. The average equity Partner in the top 100 law firms makes $800,000 a year

They do not read the scurrilous fiction called the DaVinci Code and they certainly do not waste their time going to the movie version!!!

*********************************************************

And since I never was on Abuzz, your age bracket is way off-

By the way, How long do Cows live?

I was accused of saying this:

But, Plain Ol Me says in Post No. 2098286 that when she graduated new lawyers were hired at $12,000 per year.

When I said this:

Also, although we know from his days as Massagatto on abuzz that BernardR has to be a man in his 60s (at least!), law school grads in Detroit in 1972 could look to earn $12,000 to start. Teachers earned $8,000 and a reporter for either of the two dailies, $10,000. The figures were probably slightly higher for Chicago and about a grand higher each for NYC and LA. In Cleveland, the amounts would be lower.

The sort of money a freshly admitted to the bar attorney can earn today really reflects the diminished buying power of the dollar. We could go into that but why derail this thread any more?

I think we have given Betty Bowers -- whoever or whatever she is -- more attention than she deserves. She's as sour as Ann Coulter and as silly.

I wish that there was a discussion of DVC that is interesting. I tried to start a discussion on Mary Magdalene but it went nowhere. I think very few people know anything about her and this "revelation" about La Madeleine in DVC surprised people.

Too bad that DVC was based on Bloodline, The LAdy with the Alabaster Jar and other spurious material. However, as a satire on America's love/hate relationship both with Harvard and academia, it is pretty funny.

But, not funny enough to read. I ploughed through the first two and the last two pages. My gawd! It is awwwwwful.

POM, the only thing interesting about the DVC movie was its "gate". Other than that it was a pretty mundane movie. It was a munch your popcorn and put your mind on hold for three hours kind of flick.

I really don't think Plain Ol Me knows what she is talking about when she claims that Law School Grads in Detroit could look to earn $12,000 to start.

According to a study done by John P. Henderson and Norman P. Obst---"The Economic Status of the Michigan Legal Profession in 1976" the mean income of Michigan lawyers was $36,738 in 1972.

I am certain that teachers in Detroit in 1972 did not have a mean income of even $10,000.

Teachers, on the whole, are weak minded when compared to other professionals. Most of the weak minded are in the "soft" areas like Literature.

I was going to ignore this poster but this is titanically ignorant.

First, the poster seems not to understand the phrase "mean income." The mean is the arithematic average: the figure derived from adding all the salaries together and then dividing the total by the number of salaries entered. As such, the mean income reflects the salaries of people who had been practicing law for decades as well as those who had just passed the bar and began their first work.

Now, a mean income of $36,738 in 1976, the year I left Detroit, was a very handsome income. No one at age 25, fresh out of law school in 1972, could earn that much. BTW, most apartments in the Greater Detroit area, rented for as little as $125/month and there were places to be had for $100. My utility bills were all under $10/month and I spent about $30/month on gas for my car. A different world.

Second, I worked at a junior high school in Macomb County in 1971-72 . . . where the average income is less than it in the other three counties of the Tri-County area . . . and was paid $8,600 for the year as a starting salary. The man I dated then, a first year lawyer, turned down a post in Macomb County because he was offered only $8,500 in favor of his in-town offer of $10,000. So, based on my salary as a first year teacher with an unfinished master's degree, the mean salary for teachers in Michigan had to be higher because the state mandated obtaining a master's degree or 30 hours misc. grad credit within five years. And my former boyfriend was offered less than I was earning!

Third, if literature is a "soft" area for the "weak-minded," why are you arguing about it? Surely, your efforts are better spent discussing Professor Lindzer or Lindor or Lindt on global warming threads. As Massagatto, you never got his name right.

Acquiunk -- But, I wish I had seen X-men! Looking forward to the Al Gore movie and the Prairie Home Companion movie and the Crossword Puzzle movie.

A "Mean" is not an average, it is the point midway between the extremes of the sample unverse, an entirely different measure or parameter than an average. A sample universe containing an other-than-equally-represented number of samples will skew to an average either higher or lower, as circumstances provide, than the mean. The mean of the sum of digits from 1 through 9 is 5, the average of the sum of digits from 1 through 9 also is 5. However, should the sample universe consist of, for instance, a dozen examples each of the digits 1 through 4, one of the digit 5, but only a half dozen examples each of the digits 6 through 9, the mean remains 5, but the average is a bit less than 3.2.

Thank You- Mr. Timberlandko-for your help with the definition of "mean".

Note--- 48,000

44,000

40,000

36,000

32,000

28,000

24,000

20,000

16,000

12,000

8,000

4,000

. The arithematical average is--28,000 rounded off.

When I gave evidence that the lawyers in Detroit were making an average of $36,000 in 1972, Plain Ol Me thought that the beginning lawyer could not possibly be making that much.

She knows very little about Law Salaries--LESS THAN 10 YEARS LATER, IN 1981 B E G I N N I N G LAWYERS IN NEW YORK CITY--STARTING SALARIES, MIND YOU, WERE from $21,000 to as high as 38,000 in law firms. Note that the median there would be around $29,500. Plain Ol Me would have you believe that starting law salaries in Detroit in 1972 were only $12,000. Now, I know that Detriot is a backwater compared to New York but there cannot be a difference os $18,000 a year even if the dates compared are nine years apart.

I will, of course, continue to research this to show that Plain Ol Me just doesn't know what she is talking about with regard to lawyers' salaries.

She never rebutted my post( she could not, since it is true) that BEGINNING lawyers in the top 100 law firms in American START at $135,000 a year. That leaves the teacher who has been working for 20 years and is making $80,000 a year( if that much) in the dust.

This is not a thread about legal salaries. I suggest if you are interested in such a discussion, that you launch a thread on the same.

Frankly, I do not care about legal salaries.

However, when I went to the introductory lecture given on a monthly basis by the now defunct Radcliffe Career Services in January, 1990, it was noted that for every person admitted to the Bar, a person leaves the practice of law. It is a complete turnstyle and the profession most apt to disallusion its practioners.

In the town where I live, there are dozens of women with law degrees who gave up the practice of law. However, men also leave the practice. Many journalists hold law degrees. Charlie Rose was a Wall Street attorney and he has stated on his show that he hated every minute of his work. Former Wall Street Journal editor and Time-Life Publisher Norman Perlstine became a lawyer because, in his own words, he "never gave it a thought. My father was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer. It was the family profession." Perlstine found himself sleeping 14 to 16 hours a day while a practicing attorney. He left the field and became a headline editor at the NYTimes and found himself refreshed and energetic.

As for that stupid allegation that the mean somehow represents the starting salary, what bosh. A salary of $10,000 -- or $8,500 in the Macomb County Public Defenders Office -- was more than sufficient to rent an apt in the Greater Detroit area, make payments on a car and dress well enough to get by until the next career step up.

That $38,000 figure includes all legal practitioners in the mid-70s.

There are three sorts of "averages." One is the median, which is the number that falls exactly in the middle of the range under consideration.

One is the mode, which is the number that occurs most frequently in a list of figures. To remember this one, think of mode as another word for "style," or "fashion."

The last is what people commonly think of when they talk of average -- the mean. Let's say there are a 1000 book reviewers in the US. To determine the average, or mean, salary of the reviewers, one adds their total annual wages then divides the resulting number by the number of reviewers.

Actually, POM, you're more right than wrong, and I mischaracterized "Mean" in my definition above, more closely approximating the definition of "median". What most folks refer to as an "average" technically is a "mean average", the value above and below which lie respectively one half the total value of the entire sample. The "Mean Average" value is derived through summing the all the values comprising the entire sample and dividing that result by the total number of values in the sample. In statistics, an important consideration is the "standard deviation", often refered to as "sigma", the square root of the total variance by which individual samples are distanced from the mean average as they are plotted. Another term, equivalent, encountered frequently in electronics and fluid dynamics, is "RMS", or "Root Mean Square". In typical statistical application, values which plot outside the boundaries of the standard deviation are considered anomalous, "Outliers" (for plotting outside the standard deviation), and often will be weighted differently than values within the standard deviation, and in some cases even may be excluded entirely from final statistical calculation.

Sorry if I seemed mean.

I am very much afraid that Plain Ol Me has a memory problem. When I posted on lawyers, I was very clear and specific. I said that beginning lawyers from the top twenty law schools in the USA made $135,000 a year TO START. Plain Ol Me transmogrified that to Detroit---Attorney--beginning salary--1970's.

She is, I am afraid, far far behind the times.

Attornies in the United States make far more than teachers do. Even attornies who are beginning make far more than even the highest paid teacher professional in the Elementary or High Schools who have been teaching for thirty years or more.

Now, I will be specific. I challenge Plain Ol Me to state, with evidence, that STARTING lawyers in the top 100 Law Firms do not BEGIN at $135,000 per year. This does not include bonuses.

Here is what I posted on June 16th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is apparent that most people on these threads do not know how to read. I never said that ALL lawyers have high IQ's. I said that "Lawyers who graduate from our top twenty law schools are among the most brilliant people in the USA"

Did you miss that, Plain ol me?

Now, again, and I'll go slowly so I don't tax your brain too much.

If you know anything about the USA's top law schools( Begin with Harvard, Yale, Stanford) you will know that you need a GPA which is between 3.4 and 3.9 and an LSAT score of 155-174(tops is 180)

Anyone who receives those scores must have at least an IQ of 135.

Your ignorance about Lawyers is massive. Most of the people( not all) who graduate from the top twenty law schools go to work for the top 200 law firms in the USA. At present the AVERAGE compensation for a partner in the top 100 Law Firms in the USA is $800,000 a year.

New lawyers in those firms begin at $135,000.

Why don't you find out about a topic before you show your massive ignorance, Plain Ol me?
____________________________________________________________
Now, some additional information for Plain Ol Me

Information on many firms who start their BEGINNING ATTORNIES AT 135,000 PER YEAR AND RAISE THEIR SALARIES( Without Bonus included) to $180,000 per year by their sixth year, can be found at

www.vault.com

If Plain Ol Me is looking for a Detroit Law Firm, Vault mentions that Foley & Lardner begins their attornies at $115,000 per year.

So, is this Bowers woman flaunting her sarcasm in other areas? Who is she and how did she get to be a critic, if that is what she is?