"Genetic Death": The Evolution Meat Grinder

Read your thesis. Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha hHa ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha hHa ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha HaHa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha hHa ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha hHa ha ha ha haa ha ha

Sounds like what you really meant to say was: hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw hee-haw

Wait your turn. I'm not finished yet. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Okay, your turn.

so far. all your assumptions are incorrect and Haldane, retracted his(he was , after all areal worker in the field).

However, Im just Book Marking for when you say something more stupid BUT NEW. So far this is all a desparate display and your replay of Cretinist rote.
You have no concept of "cumulative selection" nor the economy of it.You should really read more about the substructural elements of a genome.


As far as intermediate fossils go, all you are doing is practicing denial of evidence. How about we go and visit some museums of Nat History and we look at some fossils in the collections?.Also, the GSA is having its annual meeting in Philly this year and they are having a series of symposia on "intermediate fssils, since the latest find in that arena, Tiktaliik and the later Devonian "fish-like amphibians" were found by Dr Ted Daeschler of The Academy. Youre speaking waay out of any area of your exxpertise here. All youre doing is parroting some Cretinist Garbage from some self published tract of unscientific crap that is used to lie to the "terminally religious"

How about we look at what real experts in the field (as opposed to legends in their own minds like yourself) have had to say on the topic of "intermediate fossils".

Remember two things here. One, standard gradualistic evolution (Darwinism) demands that the vast bulk of all fossils be intermediates and all anybody has ever turned up is a half dozen or so highly questionable specimens, and two, the substitution cost of ordinary gradualistic evolution is vastly beyond the ability of the human birth rate to handle and Stephen Gould's fast evolution scheme (punc-eek) would raise that cost enormously higher:




"Despite the bright promise that paleontology provides a means of 'seeing' evolution, it has presented some nasty difficulties for evolutionists, the most notorious of which is the presence of 'gaps' in the fossil record. Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them ..."

David B. Kitts, PhD (Zoology)
Head Curator, Dept of Geology, Stoval Museum
Evolution, vol 28, Sep 1974, p 467

"The curious thing is that there is a consistency about the fossil gaps;
the fossils are missing in all the important places."

Francis Hitching
The Neck of the Giraffe or Where Darwin Went Wrong
Penguin Books, 1982, p.19

"The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major
transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our
imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution."

Stephen Jay Gould, Prof of Geology and
Paleontology, Harvard University
"Is a new general theory of evolution emerging?"
Paleobiology, vol 6, January 1980, p. 127

"...Yet Gould and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils ... I will lay it on the line,
there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight
argument."

Dr. Colin Patterson, Senior Paleontologist,
British Museum of Natural History, London
As quoted by: L. D. Sunderland
Darwin's Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems
4th edition, Master Books, 1988, p. 89

"We do not have any available fossil group which can categorically be
claimed to be the ancestor of any other group. We do not have in the fossil record any specific point of divergence of one life form for another, and generally each of the major life groups has retained its fundamental
structural and physiological characteristics throughout its life history
and has been conservative in habitat."

G. S. Carter, Professor & author
Fellow of Corpus Christi College
Cambridge, England
Structure and Habit in Vertebrate Evolution
University of Washington Press, 1967

"The history of most fossil species includes two features inconsistent with
gradualism: 1. Stasis. Most species exhibit no directional change during
their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the
same as when they disappear ... 2. Sudden Appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and 'fully formed'."

Stephen Jay Gould, Prof of Geology and
Paleontology, Harvard University
Natural History, 86(5):13, 1977

"But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed,
why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?" (p. 206)

"Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such
intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely
graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory (of evolution)." (p. 292)

Charles Robert Darwin
The Origin of Species, 1st edition reprint
Avenel Books, 1979



"Darwin... was embarrassed by the fossil record... we are now about
120-years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been
greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still
surprisingly jerky and, ironically, ... some of the classic cases of
Darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse
in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information."

David M. Raup, Curator of Geology
Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago
"Conflicts Between Darwin and Paleontology"
Field Museum of Natural History
Vol. 50, No. 1, (Jan, 1979), p. 25

"Now, after over 120 years of the most extensive and painstaking geological exploration of every continent and ocean bottom, the picture is infinitely more vivid and complete than it was in 1859. Formations have been discovered containing hundreds of billions of fossils and our museums are filled with over 100-million fossils of 250,000 different species. The availability of this profusion of hard scientific data should permit objective investigators to determine if Darwin was on the right track. What is the picture which the fossils have given us? ... The gaps between major groups of organisms have been growing even wide and more undeniable. They can no longer be ignored or rationalized away with appeals to imperfection of the fossil record."

Luther D. Sunderland (Creationist)
Darwin's Enigma: Fossils and Other Problems,
4th edition, Master Books, 1988, p. 9

"My attempts to demonstrate evolution by an experiment carried on for more than 40 years have completely failed. ... The fossil material is now so complete that it has been possible to construct new classes, and the lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."

Prof N. Heribert Nilsson
Lund University, Sweden
Famous botanist and evolutionist
As quoted in: The Earth Before Man, p. 51

Here're a few more (quotes from real experts on the existence or non-existence of "intermediate fossils):

"The family trees which adorn our text books are based on inference,
however, reasonable, not the evidence of fossils."

Stephen Jay Gould, Prof of Geology and
Paleontology, Harvard University
"Evolution's Erratic Pace"
Natural History, May, 1977, p. 13

"... if man evolved from an apelike creature he did so without leaving a
trace of that evolution in the fossil record."

Lord Solly Zuckerman, MA, MD, DSc (Anatomy)
Prof. of anatomy, University of Birmingham
Chief scientific advisor, United Kingdom
Beyond the Ivory Tower
Taplinger Publishing Company, 1970, p 64

"The entire hominid (a so-called 'ape-man' fossil) collection know today
would barely cover a billiard table... Ever since Darwin... preconceptions
have led evidence by the nose in the study of fossil man."

John Reader
"Whatever Happened to Zinjanthropus?
New Scientist, March 26, 1981, pp. 802-805

"The fossils that decorate our family tree are so scarce that there are
still more scientists than specimens. The remarkable fact is that all the
physical evidence we have for human evolution can still be placed, with
room to spare, inside a single coffin."

"Modern apes, for instance, seem to have sprung out of nowhere. They have no yesterday, no fossil record. And the true origin of modern humans -- of upright, naked, tool-making, big-brained beings -- is, to be honest with ourselves, an equally mysterious matter."

Dr. Lyall Watson
"The Water People"
Science Digest, May 1982, p 44.

"The fossil record pertaining to man is still so sparsely known that those
who insist on positive declarations can do nothing more than jump from one hazardous surmise to another and hope that the next dramatic discovery does not make them utter fools... As we have seen, there are numerous scientists and popularizers today who have the temerity to tell us that there is 'no doubt' how man originated. If only they had the evidence..."

William R. Fix
The Bone Peddlers (Macmillan, 1984), pp. 150

"A five million year old piece of bone that was thought to be a collarbone
of a humanlike creature is actually part of a dolphin rib... The problem
with a lot of anthropologists is that they want so much to find a hominid
that any scrap of bone becomes a hominid bone."

Dr. Tim White
Evolutionary anthropologist
University of California at Berkeley
New Scientist, April 28, 1983, p. 199

"...not being a paleontologist, I don't want to pour too much scorn on
paleontologists, but if you were to spend your life picking up bones and
finding little fragments of head and little fragments of jaw, there's a
very strong desire to exaggerate the importance of those fragments..."

Greg Kerby
From an address to the Biology Teachers
Association of South Australia, 1976

"Echoing the criticism made of his father's Homo habilis skulls, he
(Richard Leakey) added that Lucy's skull was so incomplete that most of it
was 'imagination, made of plaster of paris,' thus making it impossible to
draw any firm conclusion about what species she belonged to."

Richard Leakey (Son of Louis Leakey)
Director of National Museums of Kenya, Africa
The Weekend Australian, May 7-8, 1983, p. 3

"The evidence given above makes it overwhelmingly likely that Lucy was no more than a variety of pygmy chimpanzee, and walked the same way (awkwardly upright on occasions, but mostly quadrupedal). The 'evidence' for the alleged transformation from ape to man is extremely unconvincing."

Albert W. Mehlert, Former Evolutionist &
paleoanthropology researcher
"Lucy - Evolution's Solitary Claim for Ape/Man"
Creation Research Society Quarterly,
Vol 22, No. 3, (Dec 1985), p. 145

Ah yeah... One final quote by a true expert on the subject of junk (and presumably junk science like evolution) regarding anybody dopey enough to actually BELIEVE in something like that:

Gunga, you are such a head case that I wonder how you can feed yourself. We went through your Out of Context quotes a year ago and Im not gonna go through em again cause I realize that you must really be senile to have forgotten. I think we gave you a good beat up about the nature of "quote mining" as a disengenuous means of trying to make a point.

I like to discuss new stuff Your quote of Darwin, I checked< and we didnt chastize you for that one
Your "brain trust' when they quoted Darwin failed to mention that his very quote

Is answered by the title in chapter 9 of the 6th edition of "Origin"

_"On the Imperfection of the Geologic Record"_

He answere d it in the chapter title. More than that , Darwin posited that there were a way, if all these fossils were somehow in adjacent regions, the problem of stratigraphic geopsition would be more resolved(the issue wasnt only a temporal hiatus of apparent intermediates, but a world of specimens that was all broken up like ice floes)
THE GENIUS OF THAT STATEMENT TOOK ANOTHER 100 YEQRS TO RESOLVE. Darwin, a neophyte geologist, had no clue, as did noone else, about Seafloor spreading. Only later did we see that these many specimens were available once we "refit" the continents together prior to Iapetus .

GUNGA, go get an equivalent terminal degree in my area and Ill consider you a colleague and take your brain dead criticisms and give them deeper rebuttal, Youre just a mule for the Cretinist "scientists" ,and you dont even know that all of your quotes are either out of context or incorrect attributions

That quote, for example, is a magazine article and the author, was quoting Henry Morris's 1974 book of "Scientific Creationism" the book that started the Louisiana pro Creationism laws. Morris was a real madman and has been distanced even by the cReationists for his over embellishments and outright lies. Anyway the most recent count of hominid ancestor fossils is just under 1700 individuals, a big pool table's worth.

Try to get some newer incomplete quotes, lets not play the same record over and over. your cartoons and attempts at making fun are undesratndably immature, Because your unable to attain a higher plane of understanding.

PS try to bone up on some actual science by reading some of the new 'fish to amphibian" fossil finds from the last 10 years. neil Shubin and Ted Daeschler in APrils Nature, andJennifer Clack, in an upcoming Paleoecology journal. For your information, there are over 20 individual intermediate early tetrapodal fossil fish/amphibians from the early to mid Devonian alone.
Im confident that these people dont make this up (unlike your Creationist leaers)

Please forgive my bad typing this AM, as my crippled left hand is giving me trouble and Im experiencing all loss of feeling. Consequently, Im counting on you to try to unravel my spelling errors by consiering that the key I waished to strike was in proximity to the key that I actually struck.

Gunga-I find that youre a lot like Walt Remine( your hero) , in that you dont let an obvious lack of formal education in a relevant field stop you .

DAMMIT- I went to the emergency room this afternoon and they did an arm scan because of the deadness. (I thought I was having a stroke). It turns out that a major nerve has a piece of remnant shrapnel and this is already causing some bleeding in my left shoulder ( i must have caused movement in the piece of metal when I was shearing a sheep yesterday).

Ive gotta go for more tests and probably an operation this week to remove it and this will interfere with my next trip south. Oh goodie, another summerr with a cast thatI can look forward to. PHUCCKK

Bummer.

Take care of yourself. We only seem to get one body in this life.

Best of luck to you.

sorry to hijack. Im all checked in and playing with my partners laptop. The hospital has all wifi , all over. Im gonna get some arthroscopic surgery but have a neurosurgeon in control, (too close to main nerve trunks) Maybe thisll help my lack of most feeling in my hand , maybe not, but it will keep it from getting worse and perhaps cutting my artery betwen the subclavian and axial.. (I looked it up on an anatomy site after I had my prep talk last night).
I wanted a local anesthetic but they say no. Im actually afraid of being knocked out because of the potential for clotting. Ive been off my aspirin since Sunday and Ive been giving lots of "unsolicited " advice to the anesthesiologist. (She is getting noticeably pissed at my telling her **** like shes a mechanic. Well guess what--she is. Its my car and , what the hell, Im the customer).

Im not impressed by physicians because I know most of them couldnt handle the math in pre med. Most are not gietd spatial thinkers, they are info crammers who need to read the research jouirnals to find out about science.

Well, Im keyed up and ready for action at 8;30. I have no idea how long Ill be out or how much this crap is gonna cost.
I had a friend who recently went to an emergency room for a kidney stone. With all the MRI's and other meds and the use of the emergency room (he was there less than 3 hours). Gess what it cost?




































15 Phuckin K. Jeezus!!

When I get out of here , I would like to discuss the missing intermediate fossils and possibly discuss the criteria that Creationists use to determine what IS NOT and intermediate. I have a feeling that much of the fossil evidence is passing over the heads of the Creationists.

Now I must take nice Mr green and Black capsule which will relax me. A party in a pill. WHoda thunk?

Not surprising. Most of it passes over my head too. It's the genetic similarities that do it for me.

Re: "Genetic Death": The Evolution Meat Grinder


Reading your posts brings to mind a different image: I see a meat grinder with a GungaSnake going in at one end, and your own tail turning the handle, as you grind yourself to bits. Kind of analagous to what you do in your own posts.

I hope that you get better, Farmerman. Then you can rebut EVERY SINGLE ONE of Gungasnake's quotes and show exactly why those quotes are incorrect. I am sure you can do that, can't you?

I am not as well read in the subject as Gungasnake but I have read "Darwin's Black Box" by the the biochemist Dr. Michael Behe, and am persuaded by his argument that Darwin did not understand biochemistry and was not able to answer questions such as how the modern eye evolved gradually from a simpler structure, not even beginning to explain where his starting point--the relatively simple light-sensitive spot came from.

Science does change its theories. It was only thirty years ago that a number of climatologists claimed that the earth was headed for a new ice age.

While I am saddened by your incipient surgery and the pain/inconvenience of it all, and the effect on your trip south, I must confess to a chuckle since I believe only you are likely to experience shrapnel movement due to sheep shearing!




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be well soon.


I DO hope it is not your typing arm?