Why are you religious? Please give your reasons.

Echi ? What is it ?

kevmo--

I was asking JLN about something he's mentioned a couple times... I still don't really understand it, yet. Some kind of non-personal will, maybe.

echi, I expound a lot on my "perspective" which is more or less an expression of zen Buddhism as I have come to understand it intellectually. But zen is not an intellectual endeavor, so much of what I say is misleading and highly personal. Moreover, I hope I will grow out of it some day.

Your point?

When you really get into the nitty gritty of it, language is quite the pain in the arse. Someone pointed out a classic phrase that we all use without thinking a while back, "it's raining", what's raining? Kind of places some of this in perspective. It can be extremely hard, if not impossible, to convey certain thoughts and feelings with some of these subjects. I know I've thought about things that I've instantly realised I'd struggle to convey in any serious sense.

Regarding the gestures and expressions of nature, I don't see it as a will but more of an is, happening or process. Again the language barrier creeps in. How about,

...and as choice is of nature

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Also, instead of looking at choice from the individual perspective, so, I could do this, that or the other and there will be a will or want to make that choice, how about taking a step back and looking at someone else's situation and seeing the choices available to said person as an inevitability of him existing. Then, when you take a further step back, you forget ego and self etc (or individuals) and see them as simply a component of a whole, choices simply become expressions of nature, inevitable ones based on what nature is (or we think it is).

Ashers,

I would think it would be painfully obvious. Of course, I can see how you, possibly falling into the category I am describing, might choose to play dumb

Thanks JL, when I see an interesting train of thought I try to run with it.

Chumly,

Haven't read all the pages (not sure if anyone else has mentioned it) but it's good to keep in mind that the reasons people give for being religious could be a very long way away from the real reasons.

Very good point! I wonder how to tell the rationalized justifications from the underlying facts.

I think it safe to assume that there is an element of rationalization in virtually all (including my) pronouncements.

JL, I dunno if you try to be funny or not, but I've gotten many a chuckle n' smile from reading you.

I know, right? You're funny as hell, JL.

The reason, and I've quoted this before, is that many people have an irrational fear of randomness and religion is a comfortable way to explain randomness. Let them have what they want. I certainly don't want it -- I would equate that to having a frontal lobotomy.

My wife still looks at me with a certain degree of incredulousness when I tell her I have no religious beliefs. Well that is perhaps not quite the case as I have a belief in the future of man's potentiality to become godlike, but that gets an even more raised eyebrow effect from her.

Yeah, but which god? There are nine billion names for god.

I guess it's a "case of conscience".

Oh, we will never hear the end of this. Infinity isn't far enough.

Hopefully before "nightfall".

Chumly

"It was a dazzling four-sun afternoon...."

..a big favourite that one. (The short version even more so.)