Obama '08?

kickycan wrote:

Bad news for Obama. I went and saw the Letterman show today and he came out and asked the audience by a show of applause who would vote for Obama and who would vote for McCain. Now, you can give me your charts and graphs and straw polls and surveys, but I think you will not find a fairer representation of mainstream America than a Letterman audience.

The applause was noticeably louder for McCain. So, sorry Obama supporters, but it's over. Obama will lose in November. Damn, I thought he had a real chance too.

+1

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Here's a way for us (Dems) to win in November. And I believe it's our only chance.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2008/06/06/primary_aftermath/?source=newsletter

Quote:

Democrats, put down your swords

Mourn defeat, yes, but the destruction wreaked by the Bush administration leaves little room for factional fights and identity politics between today and Nov. 4.

By Joe Conason

June 6, 2008 | For Democrats of all persuasions, the conclusion of the primaries should encourage reflection rather than recrimination. Now is the time to listen to the calm counsel that cannot be heard amid the roar of combat, and to think.

Hillary Clinton needs to think about how best to preserve the gains of her campaign without spoiling it all. Barack Obama must consider how best to unite his party while making choices, including a running mate, true to his own instincts and style. Meanwhile their supporters can take deep breaths and try to imagine how they will feel on Nov. 5 if John McCain has won the presidency.

Nothing could be more naive than to expect politics to be governed by the golden rule, even within a party whose leaders and activists are supposed to share the same ideals. But as a mental exercise, I suggest that the supporters of Clinton and Obama consider how they would wish their adversaries to behave if their positions were reversed -- if somehow she had narrowly defeated him instead of the way things actually turned out.

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The thing that Obamaites should think about is the razor thin victory of Obama and the razor thin defeat of Clinton. But they wont. They will continue to gloat and point out to the Clinton crowd how stupid they were and possibly swing them to Mc Cain. At least it has worked that way for me.

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dude, did you even read lola's post?

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Snood
"dude", Yes I read her post. Did you bother to think about my post before you tried to put me down. Obama and his crowd need my vote. I don't vote for an individual because lola or snood or clinton tell me to. I think for myself. Obama is going to have to convince me that he will be good for me and my family and making racial speeches isn't going to do it. I want substance about what he is going to do as president not bs feel good speeches about nothing. As far as race goes Martin Luther King said it all and said it much better when he had to put his ass on the line. Obama just feeds off what King already did and said. He docent impress me at this time.

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snood wrote:

dude, did you even read lola's post?

Lola's post captures a lot of the feelings and thoughts I've been hearing in my circles. This is from both Clinton and Obama supporters.

I think that everyone knew that regardless of the outcome, there would be a uniting phase. Sure the democratic primary can hurt the dems, but I'm still glad for the way they do it. The dems face an extra challenge that I don't think the Republicans have nearly as a hard time with, and that is that the Dems represent a lot of different people with different values. I'm convinced that there is no way that one democrat can have a platform that 100% appeals to all democrats. Having said that, now that things are over, let them be over.

If a Clinton supporter is not happy about the outcome, I can understand. I was for Edwards. I remember how I felt wen he left the race. I can imagine how I would have felt if Obama had lost. What I can't imagine is becoming bitter and vengeful about making the other candidate lose. If Obama had lost, I would not be running around shouting that I'm going to vote for McCain. Why would I want to do that?

I'm seeing people so emotionally stirred by Clinton's loss that they are speaking out irrationally. They like Clinton want to be gratified in some way. I don't think that there is a problem with that sentiment.

This kind of emotional thinking is exactly what the republican party wants from the dems. Right now we aren't talking about...

education
the war
health care
the environment

And I think that we shouldn't lose sight of what IS important to us. The Democratic party is a force of nature when we are together. I think Clinton would agree. To my Clinton supporter friends, let's not forget that our party is about compromise and we don't design an oval office that leaves all the suggestions at the door. I'm confident that Clinton will continue to be able to make wonderful changes for our country. If she's proven anything it's that she's 100% political muscle. In terms of campaigns, McCain is small fish in comparison. I think she has taught/prepared Obama a lot.

Think big picture.
K
O

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rabel22 wrote:

Snood
"dude", Yes I read her post. Did you bother to think about my post before you tried to put me down. Obama and his crowd need my vote. I don't vote for an individual because lola or snood or clinton tell me to. I think for myself. Obama is going to have to convince me that he will be good for me and my family and making racial speeches isn't going to do it. I want substance about what he is going to do as president not bs feel good speeches about nothing. As far as race goes Martin Luther King said it all and said it much better when he had to put his ass on the line. Obama just feeds off what King already did and said. He docent impress me at this time.

I'm sorry you're leaning toward McCain. And I agree with you in part, at least to say that the polarizing that has been encouraged and spiked by the press and carried out by most of us has turned a lot of people off. We're all equally guilty, IMO. And if you think that McCain will better represent and address the needs of you and your family, then you're right to vote for him. But if you're doing it out of spite alone, please think again. Try to listen to Obama and see if he will be better.

It's time to stop the blaming. Healing does not take place in the face of blame and accusation. I think Obama will be an excellent president. I'm worried about him being able to win the election. I think Hillary is more electable. But we won't be testing her electability, we're testing Obama's now. And Obama needs the support of all Democrats in order to win. Acknowledgment of this obvious fact will go a long way toward healing the divide. Empathy and understanding for the feelings of everyone with a horse in the race will be the most productive way to proceed.

I think Conason's suggestion to think about how each of us would feel if the outcome had been the other way around is a good one. We have differences of opinion, but we all get mad and defensive in the face of outright ridicule and blame. So let's cut the fighting please. And do think about how it will feel, and the consequences that will result if the Republicans win the White House again.

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Im sorry but what I see from the democrats is the same thing that the Bush conseratives did during the last elections. The idea that the only thing that is necessary is to vote republican just because they are republican. Don't consider Ideas or what the party declares it will do. All I have heard from Obama are wordy promises with no substance. When I point this out I am told to go to his spin sites and ingest more of his wordy wisdom. I want to know what he claims he is going to do and how he is going to accomplish those aims. Im not impressed with the fact that he has written a book or that he went to Harvard or where ever. If he can convince me that he really is interested in helping the common man than I will vote for him even though he is a lawyer. I want plain language not collage wisdom which usually means someone is trying to snow me with slick words because they don't think Im smart enough to see through a snow job. If he cant convince me han I will vote for someone else. As for writing in a candidate I don't think you can do that in Illinois. We have a unique constitution.

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You're not really listening. He explains both what he would like to do and in most cases how he would like to do it all the time. I'm sure any issue you could bring up, we could find quotes and clips of him talking about his plans on that issue - if you care to listen, that is.

You only hear what you want to hear....

Cycloptichorn

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rabel22 wrote:

Im sorry but what I see from the democrats is the same thing that the Bush conseratives did during the last elections. The idea that the only thing that is necessary is to vote republican just because they are republican. Don't consider Ideas or what the party declares it will do. All I have heard from Obama are wordy promises with no substance. When I point this out I am told to go to his spin sites and ingest more of his wordy wisdom. I want to know what he claims he is going to do and how he is going to accomplish those aims. Im not impressed with the fact that he has written a book or that he went to Harvard or where ever. If he can convince me that he really is interested in helping the common man than I will vote for him even though he is a lawyer. I want plain language not collage wisdom which usually means someone is trying to snow me with slick words because they don't think Im smart enough to see through a snow job. If he cant convince me han I will vote for someone else. As for writing in a candidate I don't think you can do that in Illinois. We have a unique constitution.

rabel, You can count me in the group that still questions how Obama will fulfill his promise of "change." His words must have some semblance of fulfillment, or they mean absolutely nothing.

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All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

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All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

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rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

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Sorry for the double post. My last post was for Cyclo. Not CI.

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rabel22 wrote:

As for writing in a candidate I don't think you can do that in Illinois.

Sure you can.

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rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change.

Apologies to Obama fans, but when I get an opening this wide, I can't resist using one of the more innocuous Obama gaffes: Smile

Quote:

We live in a country which is the greatest country in the world, we have the best economy and a country wherein our dreams fulfilled, so I ask you to join me to change it. This is the CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.--Barack Obama

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(Sorry if you already know this but I really couldn't tell -- you do realize that's a satirical paraphrase and not an actual Obama quote...?)

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sozobe wrote:

(Sorry if you already know this but I really couldn't tell -- you do realize that's a satirical paraphrase and not an actual Obama quote...?)

I did have suspicions that it was probably manufactured. It has been posted everywhere but I've never seen a link to a source.

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