Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:29 am
Here is Obama's problem in the general campaign:

Quote:
One of Barack Obama''s Middle East policy advisers disclosed yesterday that he had held meetings with the militant Palestinian group Hamas -- prompting the likely Democratic nominee to sever all links with him . . .

. . ..The rapid departure of Mr Malley followed 48 hours of heated clashes between John McCain, the Republican nominee-elect, and Mr Obama over Middle East policy.

, , , ,Mr McCain has high-lighted the Democrat''s pledge to negotiate directly with nations such as Iran -- whose leaders talk of wiping Israel off the map -- and a statement from Hamas saying that it hoped that Mr Obama would win the presidency. . . .

. . . .Randy Scheunemann, Mr McCain''s foreign policy chief, suggested that Mr Malley was part of an emerging pattern in which other advisers had been repudiated after throwing confusion over policies on trade and Iraq. ""Perhaps because of his inexperience Senator Obama surrounds himself with advisers that contradict his stated policies,"" he said.
TIME ONLINE



A contradiction???
Quote:
May 10, 2008 - Obama's statement on Lebanon
Hezbollah's power grab in Beirut has once more plunged that city into violence and chaos. This effort to undermine Lebanon's elected government needs to stop, and all those who have influence with Hezbollah must press them to stand down immediately. It's time to engage in diplomatic efforts to help build a new Lebanese consensus that focuses on electoral reform, an end to the current corrupt patronage system, and the development of the economy that provides for a fair distribution of services, opportunities and employment. We must support the implementation of UN Security Council Resolutions that reinforce Lebanon's sovereignty, especially resolution 1701 banning the provision of arms to Hezbollah, which is violated by Iran and Syria. As we push for this national consensus, we should continue to support the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Siniora, strengthen the Lebanese army, and insist on the disarming of Hezbollah before it drags Lebanon into another unnecessary war. As we do this, it is vital that the United States continues to work with the international community and the private sector to rebuild Lebanon and get its economy back on its feet.


YouTube clip - debate quote
YOU TUBE DEBATE CLIP ON NEGOTIATIONS

Quote:
If elected president, Senator Barack Obama would meet with Iran's leaders and offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek "regime change" if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues.

HERALD TRIBUNE


Obama's website:
Quote:
Diplomacy: Obama is the only major candidate who supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:30 am
rabel22 wrote:
While reading about Mc Main backing down from his staying in Iraq for 100 years ...


Was he "backing down," or clarifying his remark to those who have repeatedly mischaracterized it?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:31 am
Nah, that's not a problem for him in the general.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:31 am
Ticomaya wrote:
rabel22 wrote:
While reading about Mc Main backing down from his staying in Iraq for 100 years ...


Was he "backing down," or clarifying his remark to those who have repeatedly mischaracterized it?


He wasn't mischaracterized in the slightest. He made that same comment on several different occasions, and didn't qualify it with namby-pamby bullshit on most of them.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:32 am
Ticomaya wrote:
rabel22 wrote:
While reading about Mc Main backing down from his staying in Iraq for 100 years ...


Was he "backing down," or clarifying his remark to those who have repeatedly mischaracterized it?


He has had to clarify it when a quote was cherry picked out of the whole statement. He explained when he said it what he meant, but that part was ignored.

Obama also should clarify when he is misquoted or mischaracterized.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:33 am
Foxfyre, the problem is McCains since overwhelmingly Americans want dialogue over the bomb bomb bomb Iran insanity. 80% Americans want something completely different from Bushie yet McCain has tied himself to Bushie's war mentality.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:34 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Nah, that's not a problem for him in the general.

Cycloptichorn


Sorta contradicts his denial of any form of appeasement though. Let's give them what they want in return for them playing nice? Hasn't worked dealing with tyranny in the past and President Bush's point was that it isn't likely to work now. They get what they want and they still don't play nice.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:36 am
blueflame1 wrote:
Foxfyre, the problem is McCains since overwhelmingly Americans want dialogue over the bomb bomb bomb Iran insanity. 80% Americans want something completely different from Bushie yet McCain has tied himself to Bushie's war mentality.


In case you didn't notice ya retard, Islam declared war on us first.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:39 am
No part of his explanation made the quote any better.

McCain uses the false analogy of a Korea-style occupation to try and cover his ass. But he studiously avoids answering questions about how that will be achieved, and he has fundamental misunderstandings of the basic nature of Iraq in the first place.

This is going to be a serious problem for him in the general. You can bitch about it all you want, but there's video of McCain saying he'd be fine with staying in Iraq for 100 years. Even if we're talking about a peaceful occupation force, it's still way out of step with the American public.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:40 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Obama's correct response should have been, well he certainly isn't talking about me because I am not an appeaser.


He did, pretty much:

Quote:
"It is time to turn the page on eight years of policies that have strengthened Iran and failed to secure America or our ally Israel," Obama said in a written response to Bush's speech. "Instead of tough talk and no action, we need to do what Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan did and use all elements of American power - including tough, principled, and direct diplomacy - to pressure countries like Iran and Syria.

"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists," Obama said, "and the president's extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel.''
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:41 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Nah, that's not a problem for him in the general.

Cycloptichorn


Sorta contradicts his denial of any form of appeasement though. Let's give them what they want in return for them playing nice? Hasn't worked dealing with tyranny in the past and President Bush's point was that it isn't likely to work now. They get what they want and they still don't play nice.


You should admit that this is exactly what Prez. Bush is doing right now in Pakistan and North Korea. Giving them what they want in exchange for playing nice. He's an appeaser by your definition.

That's diplomacy. That's how it works in a lot of cases. The fact that you Conservatives can't figure this out says a lot about the failures of your cause.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:41 am
cjhsa, what I noticed are those in the administration who declared a new Pearl Harbor would help them sell war in Iraq to America. I noticed also that despite a mountain of warnings Bushie said he felt no sense of urgency about al qaeda or bin Laden. I remeber also that these same Crusaders armed and funded Saddam and bin Laden.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:43 am
sozobe wrote:
"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists," ...


Then it appears Obama knows Bush was referring to other people, and not him.

So why are all you Obama supporters pissing and moaning that he was singling out your guy?
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:45 am
Hey people, instead of being the big bad ass, whip ass country Bush potrays us too be why don't we pull all our troops out of all the countries around the world that don't really want us there and spend our tax money on our own borders protecting our citizens. Now there is a novel option that wont ever happen.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:46 am
Because he was, by any reasonable reading.

Seriously, Tico, what do you think he meant? Why was he saying it?

This isn't a gotcha debate moment -- you can answer in all kinds of minimally plausible ways, and all I can say is "OK, if that's what you think." But to push aside gotcha-ness for a minute, seriously, you don't think he was referring to Obama there?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:48 am
Just like Wright will continue to haunt Obama. I wonder what kind of thing that lunatic will do next? Should be an exciting 6 months.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 09:56 am
Wow, McGentrix, when did you start calling Bush a lunatic?

I agree he's going to be as much of an albatross for McCain as Wright is for Obama -- probably way bigger, in fact (I've seen polls showing this, if you're interested.)
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 10:00 am
sozobe wrote:
Because he was, by any reasonable reading.

Seriously, Tico, what do you think he meant? Why was he saying it?

This isn't a gotcha debate moment -- you can answer in all kinds of minimally plausible ways, and all I can say is "OK, if that's what you think." But to push aside gotcha-ness for a minute, seriously, you don't think he was referring to Obama there?


I've already answered this. I think he was referring to appeasers, and I agree with his comments in that regard. And if by referring to appeasers you think he was referring to your candidate, then you are free to make that association. However, it appears your candidate believes Bush must not have been referring to him, since Bush knows he's not an appeaser. In any event, if you want to insist that he was referring to Obama, by all means do so. I don't see it makes a great deal if difference in the end. I thought it was a pretty good speech.

And if the net effect of the speech, and that portion in particular, sounds the death knell of the Hildabeast's campaign, all the better.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 10:02 am
The Wright thing has played out it's course. McCain and Hagee will steer clear out of necessity. Unfortunately for McCain the election will be decided on the issues. I'm curious if McCain will be try to shoot down the GI Bill or flip flop once again. Lots people are curious about that.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2008 10:04 am
Ticomaya wrote:
I've already answered this. I think he was referring to appeasers, and I agree with his comments in that regard. And if by referring to appeasers you think he was referring to your candidate, then you are free to make that association. However, it appears your candidate believes Bush must not have been referring to him, since Bush knows he's not an appeaser. In any event, if you want to insist that he was referring to Obama, by all means do so. I don't see it makes a great deal if difference in the end. I thought it was a pretty good speech.


OK, if that's what you think. ;-)

Quote:
And if the net effect of the speech, and that portion in particular, sounds the death knell of the Hildabeast's campaign, all the better.


Agreed. Well, "Hildabeast" is a bit much, but I'm so ready to get the general election started...!
0 Replies
 
 

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