Obama '08?

If it had been just anybody across the aisle, I wouldnt have had any weirded afterthought. But Coburn? I mean, it sounds like a good measure, no hesitation on that - its just - Coburn is arguably the most extremist asshoule you can find on the whole Republican side in the Senate. I dont like him being accorded this kind of bipartisan respect.

I mean, Coburn thinks that those who perform abortions should be subject to the death penalty. He described his election campaign against moderate Democrat Carson as a race between "good and evil". He's the one who went hysterical about "lesbianism" being "so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom". I mean, the guy is insane. I just wish Obama had found someone a little more worthy of bipartisan acknowledgement to sponsor this bill with.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I get a whiff of political pragmatism though that I like -- that he figured that for whatever reason that was the best way to make what he wanted to have happen, happen.

what if some people look at it as principles trumping personalities?

I would consider not collaborating with people who think abortion doctors should be executed a question of principle.

How do you "err" on an approval/disapproval rating?

Seems to me the only way you can find out if a poll "erred" is the poll's prediction of the popular vote on Election Eve.

By getting the numbers consistently a few points higher (or lower) than all the other polls do.

Eg, consider this graph I was keeping up at the time, which tracked Bush's job approval rating from 2001-2004: graph.

You'll see that each pollster's numbers are drawn in separately. Among the disapproval ratings, you'll see an orange-brownish line that is strikingly below all the others throughout. Thats the Fox News poll, eg what Thomas is talking about.

The only other polls that showed numbers so consistently off from what all the other polls were indicating were AP-Ipsos and ARG, which both had Bush's disapproval a few points higher than all the other polls almost every time.

Well, how do you know that Zogby doesn't have it right and the other polls are off the mark?

When Election Day comes, that seems to be the way it works out.

It is axiomatic that anyone whose name begins with a "z" has come here from another distant solar system. This also applies to things, like "zylon", the miracle fabric, and "zither". If you've ever slept with a zither player, you'll understand the explanatory power of this axiom and that will lead you on to appreciating the technological advance represented by the alien-bequeathed zipper.

Extra-terrestrial or not, Zogby has gotten the last three Presidential elections accurate to within a point. No other pollster can make that claim.

All polls are not created equal. Until some other poll matches Zogby's record, his poll counts for more than other polls.

Thomas wrote:


I think you are falling into a logical trap here: Generally, the proposition "most 'X's are 'Y's" does not follow from "most 'Y's are 'X's". Thus, just because most Montana Freemen are US citizens, it doesn't follow that most US citizens are Montana Freemen. And just because most Hesbollah members are Lebanese, it does not follow that Lebanese are Hesbollah members, or even Hesbollah sympathizers. Only the latter statement, but not the former, would justify a negative opinion of Lebanese in General.
end of quote
And just because most SS men were German citizens, it did not follow that most German citizens were SS men. Of course not. But I am sure that you realize that the COMPLICITY of the Germans who lived under Hitler and who refused to stop the SS from loading Israelis on to the trains to take them to the Gas Chambers,was one of the causes of the holocaust.

People have a responsibility to resist evil. The Lebanese are not resisting evil. The allow the murderous Hezbollah to live and prosper among them.

The next time( and since the Hezbollah are murderous Islamo-fascist fanatics driven by the desire to impose Islam on the rest of the world) and unless the do-nothing UN blocks the border to Syria and prevents the Hezbollah from launching rockets into Israeli territory, the Israelis will FLATTEN the rest of Lebanon and completely destroy their infrastructure and the LEBANESE will have earned it--all of them--men, women and children, since they have the responsibility of RIDDING THEIR COUNTRY OF ALL OF THE SS(Hezbollah) among them.

It is clear to me that Snood does not follow the news: Obama fell on his face in Africa. He should have been home helping the failing schools in the largest city in his state- Chicago. Yet, he wastes tax payer money( Yes, some of the money he used to go to Africa was tax-payer money) and garners strong opposition from African leaders. As his fellow students at Harvard Law school noted when he was President of the law review--
Obama was friendly and outgoing but the other law students wanted a "tougher" leader than he.



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Critical Obama loses 'favorite son' status in Kenya by Bogonko Bosire
Thu Aug 31, 4:07 PM ET



NAIROBI (AFP) - Kenya stepped up criticism of US Senator Barack Obama, accusing him of insulting the Kenyan people and trivializing their achievements during a visit to his father's homelan

Two days after abruptly changing its tone on Obama, who had been welcomed as a returning hero but incurred official wrath with blistering criticism of corruption and ethnic divisions, Nairobi launched a new attack on the lawmaker.

Less than 24 hours after the rising US political star left Kenya to continue an African tour, government spokesman Alfred Mutua blasted Obama for choosing "to dwell on non-issues" in a nationally televised speech on Monday.

"Senator Obama made extremely disturbing statements on issues which it is clear, he was very poorly informed, and on which he chose to lecture the government and the people on how they should manage their country," he said.

Mutua said the government would write a formal protest to the junior senator from Illinois who he suggested had falsely claimed his trip to Africa was intended to "nuture relations between the continent and the United States."

Noting the government had "spared no effort in making his stay and travel ... enjoyable and fulfilling," Mutua said Obama's criticism of Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki's administration was unfair, unwarranted and unjustified by facts.

He said Obama was wrong in asserting that Rwandan genocide fugitive Felicien Kabuga had bought protection in Kenya, that graft had plunged the country into "crisis" and that dangerous tribal divisions were on the rise.

Obama's comment about Kabuga "is an insult to the people of this country," Mutua said, adding he had "ignored" accomplishments in fighting corruption and boosting economic growth from near zero to six percent in three years.

"This cannot be achieved in a country, which Senator Obama says, is experiencing a corruption crisis," he said, before slamming the lawmaker for allegedly "trivializing" Kenya's ethnic harmony and "magnifying tribalism."

"Senator Obama enjoyed the vibrant freedom of expression and wide democratic space in this country during his tour," Mutua said. "Instead of acknowledging this... he chose to dwell on non-issues."

A day after Obama's stinging speech at the University of Nairobi, Mutua dsmissed the lone African-American in the US Senate and potential Democratic Party presidential nominee as "immature" and an opposition stooge.


end of quote

I am going to remind Nimh again--since he is the author of this thread.

I noted that the only reason Obama won in Illinois was that he had another African-American opposing him. An African-American who was also a carpet bagger. Obama would have been crushed if Senator Fitzgerald had run again.

To buttress this statement, I predicted that ALL of the African-American candidates who are running for statewide office(Senator or Governor) who either do not have a majority of the voters in the area they will be representing come from the African-American voting block will LOSE!

My thesis is that African-Americans will NOT win elections in the USA unless they run in districts where the majority of the voters are AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

The ONLY EXCEPTION to this would be if an African-American would run against another African-American as occurred in Illinois when Obama ran against Keyes!!

I hope you made note of this- Nimh!!!

I know that German police, SS, SA and various other uniformed services have sent (and loaded) people due of various 'reasons' in concentration camps where they later were gased.

But as far as I no, no Israeli was among them since this perversity was stopped by Allied troops in 1945.

Some substantiation of the very incendiary things you say Coburn said and did would help me, but in any case - would you rather that Obama chastened him by ignoring him and not (as you put it) "offering him respect" and not have useful legislation push through? Isn't it about choosing which battles are worth fighting?

But I am sure that you realize that the COMPLICITY of the Germans who lived under Hitler and who refused to stop the SS from loading Jews on to the trains to take them to the Gas Chambers,was one of the causes of the holocaust.

Just a minor addition - since this is really out of topic: generally, persons send to the gas chambers were at first in concentration camps.

Of course--Since the gas chambers were in the concetration camps-_DUH!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas wrote:


I think you are falling into a logical trap here: Generally, the proposition "most 'X's are 'Y's" does not follow from "most 'Y's are 'X's". Thus, just because most Montana Freemen are US citizens, it doesn't follow that most US citizens are Montana Freemen. And just because most Hesbollah members are Lebanese, it does not follow that Lebanese are Hesbollah members, or even Hesbollah sympathizers. Only the latter statement, but not the former, would justify a negative opinion of Lebanese in General.
end of quote
And just because most SS men were German citizens, it did not follow that most German citizens were SS men. Of course not. But I am sure that you realize that the COMPLICITY of the Germans who lived under Hitler and who refused to stop the SS from loading Jews on to the trains to take them to the Gas Chambers,was one of the causes of the holocaust.

People have a responsibility to resist evil. The Lebanese are not resisting evil. The allow the murderous Hezbollah to live and prosper among them.

The next time( and since the Hezbollah are murderous Islamo-fascist fanatics driven by the desire to impose Islam on the rest of the world) and unless the do-nothing UN blocks the border to Syria and prevents the Hezbollah from launching rockets into Israeli territory, the Israelis will FLATTEN the rest of Lebanon and completely destroy their infrastructure and the LEBANESE will have earned it--all of them--men, women and children, since they have the responsibility of RIDDING THEIR COUNTRY OF ALL OF THE SS(Hezbollah) among them.