real life
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:18 am
Funny to see Howard Dean, head of the party, panicking.

Quote:
An increasingly firm Howard Dean told CNN again Thursday that he needs superdelegates to say who they're for - and "I need them to say who they're for starting now."

"We cannot give up two or three months of active campaigning and healing time," the Democratic National Committee Chairman told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "We've got to know who our nominee is."

After facing criticism for a mostly hands-off leadership style during much of the primary season, Dean has been steadily raising the rhetorical pressure on superdelegates. He said Thursday that roughly 65 percent of them have made their preference plain, but that more than 300 have yet to make up their minds.

The national party chair, who has remained neutral throughout the primary process, said again it's his job to make sure both candidates feel they are treated fairly - but not to tell either of them when to end their run
from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/18/dean-i-need-a-decision-now/

Bill Clinton didn't clinch the nomination in '92 until June.

What's Dean's hurry?

Why is it apparently unimportant to him that every vote be counted FIRST ? There are still some states that haven't had their primaries.

Quote:
APRIL 2008
April 22: Pennsylvania
MAY 2008
May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
May 13: Nebraska (primary), West Virginia
May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
May 27: Idaho (R)
JUNE 2008
June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota
from http://uspolitics.about.com/od/2008elections/a/prez_primary.htm

Why is he trying to force a decision before the voices of the voters in these states are heard in this extremely close race?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:25 am
Real life, this is where things started:

revel wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
One of the things Obama wanted to convey last night was that he is not guilty by association with people like Keyes and Wright. That while he may be friends with those people, he does not seek their advice or counsel. It was a good answer to the question, but left me wondering about his judgement.

Now, I don't expect either Keyes or Wright will have much to say about Obama's Presidency (should he be elected), but Obama's judgement in his associations must be suspect. Who will Obama choose to be in his cabinet? Can we risk Obama's judgement to be sound in making those decisions?


Certainly; he is hardly going to ask Wright to be in his cabinet; he is not stupid and knows if he wants to be elected the next cycle; he can't be electing controversial figures.


You replied:

real life wrote:
Obama did put Wright on his campaign, until the public found out what Wright stood for.

Do you have any doubt that Wright would still be on the campaign if the public outcry hadn't been so great?

So , Obama's judgement IS suspect.

He will appoint whoever he thinks he can get away with.


It's been in terms of cabinet appointments, now you're backing away from that. <shrug>
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:34 am
Not backing away at all. I've said that Obama will appoint not just cabinet members to his administration. And that's a fact.

Those lower level appointments , including federal judges, are extremely important as well.

You want to limit my remarks to cabinet appointments because others used the word.

It's a bigger issue than that.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:42 am
Eh.

That was what I was responding to, and am pointing that out.

I think I've already addressed everything.

"Loose group of supporters associated with the campaign" is hardly analogous to a cabinet appointment. (You haven't addressed whether Obama did any choosing or appointing or if he simply failed to ban Wright from this loose spiritual group. I dunno, I'm asking.)

From that MSNBC article, Obama says of Wright; ""In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor."

I've read a whole lot (I mean, a whole lot) about Obama and his political advisors and have been very impressed.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 08:57 am
Heres an interesting article, but I have to ask if its true.
I havent heard Obama make this claim, and I know nothing about this website.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/when-was-obamas-mom-on-food-stamps

Quote:
As everyone has surely heard by now, Mr. Obama has just added to his stump speech a claim that his mother was on food stamps. And even his wife Michelle is shouting his latest qualification for the Presidency from the rooftops.

But if Mrs. Obama (who, according to Barack, may or may not have married his father) was on food stamps, when exactly would that have been?


(snip)


Quote:
Now we learn that Obama's destitute mother was on food stamps. But I would like to know when.

There is a possibility that if she was, she was scamming the system.

[Barack Obama] was born in 1961 but his mother could not get food stamps then because a) she was married and b) they were not available then.

Then [Barack Senior] moved to a foreign country. I don't think that we were sending food stamps to foreign nations.

When she moved back in 1965, food stamps were not available in Hawaii in 1965.

In 1967, she married the second time and moved to Jakarta. Nope, no food stamps then.

By the time she moved back once again, he was living with his grandparents who had jobs and food stamps were not being handed out like Halloween candy in those years.

It would be interesting if someone did a FOI request to see if his mother ever collected food stamps. Since she is deceased, it should be no problem. But my guess? It is all bull crap.

Going by the history of the food stamp program, Retire05 seems to be correct.

Of course the Food Stamp Act of 1964 (pdf file) was in effect in 1965. But the US Department of Health And Human Resources says only 22 states participated at that time:

After a pilot program that began in 1961, the Food Stamp Act of 1964 established the Food Stamp program with 22 States participating.

So the question is whether Hawaii was among those states.

Any and all further elucidation would be greatly appreciated.


I dont know anything about how food stamps work, so is this possible?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:12 am
Mysteryman wrote:
Quote:
Now we learn that Obama's destitute mother was on food stamps. But I would like to know when.

There is a possibility that if she was, she was scamming the system.

I appreciate that you're just asking about this stuff, Mysteryman, and I dont blame you for posing your question; I mean, asking is a good thing. And no, I dont know either.

But while others might look up the facts, allow me to scream in frustration.

Is the next scandalised outrage really going to be about whether Obama's deceased mother once unjustly received food stamps?

What in heavens name does that tell us about anyone's qualifications for the Presidency?

Obama having made up the story, that I could still, remotely, see as a story of sorts - though it's hardly making up gunfire in Tuzla stuff. None of our memories of our childhoods would probably stand up very well against a meticulous examination of the details.

But someone really wanting to know when Obama's mother once received food stamps because "there is a possibility that .. she was scamming the system"? What in heaven's name does that tell voters anything?

Argh.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled program...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:12 am
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
[Barack Obama] was born in 1961 but his mother could not get food stamps then because a) she was married and b) they were not available then.

Then [Barack Senior] moved to a foreign country. I don't think that we were sending food stamps to foreign nations.

When she moved back in 1965, food stamps were not available in Hawaii in 1965.


The earliest origins of the Hawaii Food Stamp Program began as a pilot project in 1961.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:14 am
I dunno, but I know this part isn't true:

Quote:

Then [Barack Senior] moved to a foreign country. I don't think that we were sending food stamps to foreign nations.


Barack Senior moved East first (staying in the U.S.), while Barack Jr. and his mother stayed in Hawaii. That's when Sr. went to Harvard I think, I can check.

Besides isn't the point that his MOTHER got food stamps? What I'm sure of is that she stayed in Hawaii while Sr. was elsewhere, then eventually moved to Indonesia.

OK, found more:

Quote:
Ann decided not to follow himS. Ann Dunham Soetoro
When her son was almost 2, Ann returned to college. Money was tight. She collected food stamps and relied on her parents to help take care of young Barack.


http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1729524,00.html

Obama was born in ~August 1961, so that'd be ~August 1963.

Not sure about the food stamps being available in Hawaii part yet:

Quote:
20. When did the program begin?

The Food Stamp Program traces its earliest origins back to the Food Stamp Plan, which began in 1939 to help needy families in the Depression era. The modern program began as a pilot project in 1961 and was authorized as a permanent program in 1964. Expansion of the program occurred most dramatically after 1974, when Congress required all States to offer food stamps to low-income households. The Food Stamp Act of 1977 made significant changes in program regulations, tightening eligibility requirements and administration, and removing the requirement that food stamps be purchased by participants.


http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/faqs.htm#20
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:16 am
nimh wrote:
But someone really wanting to know when Obama's mother once received food stamps because "there is a possibility that .. she was scamming the system"? What in heaven's name does that tell voters anything?

Argh.


Eyep.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:19 am
Forgot the link to the source in my response:

Local media (archive)
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:20 am
Like I said, I have never heard Obama make the claim,so when I saw this article I wanted to find out more.

If she was on food stamps or not doesnt matter to me at all.
I just wanted to know if anyone else had heard Obama make the claim.

And I confess to not knowing anything about the website the article was on, nor do I know what agenda they have (if any).
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:23 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Forgot the link to the source in my response:

Local media (archive)


Thanks Walter!

Can you copy and paste what they say? I found that but couldn't get in (required registration and when I gave a bogus email address said I had to click on a link in email, bleh...)

The food stamp thing is familiar to me, whether from the article I posted or elsewhere I'm not sure. Seems simple enough to Google whether he's using it in speeches...?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:24 am
real life wrote:
It's a bigger issue than that.
To the people seriously considering voting for him; it isn't a big issue at all. But you go on shouting at the rain.

(Much bigger than Obama's mom potentially having scammed the system out of some food stamps, though. Laughing )
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:26 am
Yeah, found this pretty quickly:

Quote:
I am here because that dream made my parents' love possible, even then; because it meant that after my father left, when my mother struggled as a single parent, and even turned to food stamps for a time, she was still able to send my sister and me to the best schools in the world.


http://bluetiderising.blogspot.com/2008/01/transcript-of-obamasebelius-event-in-el.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:26 am
The earliest origins of the Hawaii Food Stamp Program began as a pilot project in 1961. It was then authorized as a permanent program in ...

The website has an error now - and there's no cached version. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:28 am
Oh well, that's the important part. Thanks!

(Have we answered your questions, mysteryman...?)
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:31 am
sozobe wrote:
Oh well, that's the important part. Thanks!

(Have we answered your questions, mysteryman...?)


Actually, yes you have.
I couldnt find anything from any of Obama's speeches where he made the claim, so I'm glad someone could.

Thanx for that.
If she was on food stamps and still sent him to the
Quote:
best schools in the world

then all I can say is good for her!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:34 am
Cool!

And ask away... I'm happy if I can put some of the Obama info rattling around in my brain to good use. :-D
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:43 am
sozobe wrote:
nimh wrote:
But someone really wanting to know when Obama's mother once received food stamps because "there is a possibility that .. she was scamming the system"? What in heaven's name does that tell voters anything?

Argh.


Eyep.


Let's consider some bits from Drew Weston's The Political Brain. He argues (based on extensive research from modern cognitive sciences) that politics is far less a 'marketplace of ideas' than it is a 'marketplace of emotions."
Quote:
"Republicans understand what the philosopher David Hume recognized three centuries ago; that reason is a slave to emotion, not the other way around. With the exception of the Clinton era, Democratic strategists for the last three decades have instead clung tenaciously to the dispassionate view of the mind and to the campaign strategy that logically follows from it, name one that focuses on facts, figures, policy statements, costs and benefits, and appeals to intellect and expertise.
They do so, I believe, because of an irrational emotional commitment to rationality..."


Take for example, the Willy Horton campain (designed by Lee Atwater and Roger Ailes, now President of Fox News).
Quote:
"The mug shot of Horton was obviously the most emotionally powerful image in the ad, playing on every white person's fears of the dangerous, lawless, violent, dark black male. Research shows that even subliminal presentation of black faces activates the amygdala in whites, and implicit racial appears are more effective than explicit ones because they don't raise people's conscious attitudes toward racism. [blatham notes: consider the Harold Ford ad run in Tennessee] The Bush team chose its photos - and its subject, a brutal and, coincidentally, very black, criminal - well. Recent findings suggest that the more "Afrocentric" the features of a convicted criminal (the darker the skin, the more Affrican the features - as in Horton's "Afro" haircut), the tougher the sentence he tends to receive in American courts."


Quote:
"The results are uniquivocal that when the outcomes of a political decision have strong emotional implications and the data leave even the slightest room for artistic license, reason plays virtually no role in the decision making of the average citizen."


Just so as we know what we are up against here.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 18 Apr, 2008 09:45 am
All together now...

WE KNOW, BLATHAM, WE KNOW!!

Razz
0 Replies
 
 

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