Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:07 pm
sozobe wrote:
People react to things at a visceral level -- that's just how it goes. One would certainly hope the name wouldn't matter, but that doesn't mean it actually wouldn't.

Why do you think he doesn't have enough experience? In terms of the job he would do, or in terms of whether he could get elected?

Who do you think would be a better choice?


As far as doing the job, he certainly can't do any worse than what we have now. Electability? His Senate run was a cakewalk, remember. His abilities as a campaigner are very uncertain. And his name, not what it is but "name recognition" is a big factor. I bet if you ask 10 people who Barack Obama is, three will think he is anything but a US Senator. In a sense, the "different sounding" name might help him in a quirky way.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:11 pm
sozobe wrote:
Why do you think he doesn't have enough experience? In terms of the job he would do, or in terms of whether he could get elected?


I thought about asking the same thing.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:13 pm
What does that mean, Snood?

Obviously, who the person is is important.

It seems as obvious to me that if the goal is to get the person into office, certain conditions need to be met. Like what we just said about George Clooney -- I think he has some really good ideas, he's photogenic, yadda yadda. But he has ZERO experience, and its just not realistic for him to be elected to the presidency in 2008 even if he gives every indication that he'd be a great president.

I don't think Obama's name is a deal-breaker, and I think he could be elected anyway. It's definitely on the liabilty rather than strength side of the column, is all. (Though you have a good point about quirkiness, Roxxxanne.)

To summarize -- I would like to support the most inspiring and qualified electable person possible. I'd like it if that would be Obama -- I'm not sure yet.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 10:20 pm
Oh and the Senate run wasn't a cakewalk, exactly. The stuff about Ryan didn't catch up with him until pretty late in the game, and there was a lot of strenuous campaigning before then.

The New Yorker article I linked to a bit ago goes into that further.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:08 pm
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:10 pm
snood wrote:
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.


Since that man, barring removal, will be George W Bush.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 15 Mar, 2006 11:23 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
snood wrote:
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.


Since that man, barring removal, will be George W Bush.


Very clever - I guess so, until after the inauguration. But you know what I meant.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 02:59 am
snood wrote:
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.


In regard to Obama, I think the Democratic Party power structure loves him as long as he toes the line and fulfills their purposes of using him, but I think you are correct that certain party leaders are not going to go quietly and turn over the party baton to Obama. I'm talking about the Clintons and a few others. One could chalk it up to inexperience and so forth, but I think there is more to it than that in the Democratic Party.

In the Republican Party, Colin Powell could have gone a long ways already if he had chosen to compete. Condie also expresses no desire to run, and probably could use more experience, but if she stays away from scandals and continues to do a good job, she has a good chance of being in the mix for VP, or even president a few years down the road. As a white person, I would most definitely consider voting for either one of the above. I would probably not vote for Obama because of his political philosophy.

Another man I greatly enjoyed hearing at the Republican convention was Michael Steele, the lt. governor of Maryland. He inspired me and I would love to be able to vote for him at some point down the road. J. C. Watts is another favorite of mine, and now what about Lynn Swann? As of now, I think the Republican Party is the most fertile ground for potential success for black or women politicians in a future presidential race. All of these projections are of course based on the people performing and staying away from any political corruption.

As far as Hillary, I don't think she can win, not because of her gender, but because of her personality and her politics.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 03:21 am
snood wrote:
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.

To many Americans won't vote for a black man just because he's black no matter how good of a president he'd make.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 05:58 am
Amigo wrote:
snood wrote:
For me, the bottom line on Obama is this:
From all indications, this country isn't ready for a black person or a woman in the oval office, and won't be anytime soon. So while its entertaining musing about Condie, Hillary, Barack and Colin, the person occupying that white house on November 8th will be a white man.

To many Americans won't vote for a black man just because he's black no matter how good of a president he'd make.


...and that's much closer to what I was saying - plain and simply, Americans ain't ready for that yet - not all that convoluted hogwash about the GOP being somehow more evolved or something.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 08:59 am
okie, You're correct of course. You have facts to support your statement. Powell was begged to be on the ticket with Bush. Condi is on the polls as a choice for President by members of her party.

I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:08 am
Lash wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.

The lack of blacks who've made it so far into prominent elected office. And more in particular, the lack of blacks who've been elected into office so far in districts that were not majority black.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:16 am
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.

The lack of blacks who've made it so far into prominent elected office. And more in particular, the lack of blacks who've been elected into office so far in districts that were not majority black.

I asked this before.

How many blacks run for office?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:36 am
Lash wrote:
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.

The lack of blacks who've made it so far into prominent elected office. And more in particular, the lack of blacks who've been elected into office so far in districts that were not majority black.

I asked this before.

How many blacks run for office?


You can research that Red Herring yourself.

How many black US Senators are there? How many black Governors? We have just reached the point where blacks can be quarterbacks and coaches in football. If you are trying to dispute that there is resistance among many whites to vote for blacks for political office, you are simply in complete denial.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:37 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
Lash wrote:
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.

The lack of blacks who've made it so far into prominent elected office. And more in particular, the lack of blacks who've been elected into office so far in districts that were not majority black.

I asked this before.

How many blacks run for office?


You can research that Red Herring yourself.

How many black US Senators are there? How many black Governors? We have just reached the point where blacks can be quarterbacks and coaches in football. If you are trying to dispute that there is resistance among many whites to vote for blacks for political office, you are simply in complete denial.


Thank you, Roxxxanne. I simply hadn't the strength....
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:40 am
I was going to edit the post to add:

"How many black senators and governors have we elected in our entire history?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:42 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
Lash wrote:
nimh wrote:
Lash wrote:
I wonder if anyone has any facts to support their dismal views of the country's readiness --or lack of--to elect someone other than a white male.

The lack of blacks who've made it so far into prominent elected office. And more in particular, the lack of blacks who've been elected into office so far in districts that were not majority black.

I asked this before.

How many blacks run for office?


You can research that Red Herring yourself.

How many black US Senators are there? How many black Governors? We have just reached the point where blacks can be quarterbacks and coaches in football. If you are trying to dispute that there is resistance among many whites to vote for blacks for political office, you are simply in complete denial.

It is an important fact in discovering whether what you're saying is true, or not.

Snood's, or nimh's, assertion is that

1) We can tell the country is not ready for blacks in high office because

2) There are so few in office.

I assert that #2 is not proof of #1.

I thought you'd want to prove the assertion.

I don't mind being wrong about this, but I don't think I am. I don't think many blacks run for high public office. If I'm wrong, show me.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:43 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
I was going to edit the post to add:

"How many black senators and governors have we elected in our entire history?


If someone is asking for hard evidence that the country isn't ready for a black president, little things like hundreds of years of history won't make a dent.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:43 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
I was going to edit the post to add:

"How many black senators and governors have we elected in our entire history?

We're talking about the country's readiness now.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 16 Mar, 2006 09:47 am
Lash's question is a Red Herring and those of us with political acumen will ignore it.

Who is this man?

http://www.nndb.com/people/844/000055679/dougwilder.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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