Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 05:59 pm
BernardR wrote:
Dizzy Delicious- Obama will do nothing about the illegals. He is an illegal himself in many ways. First of all, he is from Hawaii, the son of a Keyan father who deserted him when he was a child and a Caucasian mother originally from Kansas. He must have a real empathy for illegals since he attended a Muslim school for two years.

Many admire Obama since he attended Harvard Law School. They do not know that Harvard Law School not only seeks minority students but they actively look for people who are from states which usually send few students to Harvard. In short, Dizzy Delicious, it is clear that Obama is really ovedtouted. As you pointed out, he has written off Jesse Jackson and Jesse's Organization. Obama is so non-discrimatory, as you pointed out, that he uses a Hispanic Nanny for his children instead of African-Americans. If you know Chicago, and you seem to know it well, Hyde Park is loaded with very well qualified African-American nannies.


Could it be, Dizzy Delicious, that Obama is trying to pass?



Let me be clear about this:

Not every American conservative is an American scumbag, bigoted, redneck...

...but just about every American scumbag, bigoted, redneck is an American conservative.



Actually, I am delighted people like Bernie go out of their way to show their (you will excuse the pun) true colors...and who also make a big production of their proclaiming that they are American conservatives.

Without the bigoted, redneck, phony patriots like Bernie...American conservatism would be a mere blip on the political radar screen.

Fact is, American conservatism owes its ascendency to the dregs of our population and society.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:08 pm
I am stunned that Mr. Apisa rebutted my post by showing that my statements were untrue!!!

LOL!!!!
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:23 pm
Mr. Nimh- sir- Not only do I have a point--I have evidence to show that African-American candidates do better in Polls than they do when the Election comes up. I have already explained why, but the following does a far better job than I can.

In short, your trumpeting of Obama's poll numbers does not and never will reflect the numbers he will receive, even in Illinois, when he runs for office.

Note:

http://people-press.org/reports.display.php3?ReportID=89








Possible Consequences of Non-Response for Pre-Election Surveys
RACE AND RELUCTANT RESPONDENTS

Released: May 16, 1998

Navigate this report
Survey Findings
Tables
Appendix 1. Survey Methodology

Survey Findings

Pre-election polling is tricky work. A number of unknown factors can stand in the way of accurate predictions -- problems with identifying registered and likely voters, uncertainties about voter turnout, and last-minute shifts in candidate preference. But estimating voter preferences in biracial elections has been especially difficult. Pre-election surveys, even those taken just days before voters go to the polls, often substantially underestimate support for white candidates in races where the other candidate is African-American.

This phenomenon, which some pollsters call "racial slippage," was a factor in at least four highly-competitive biracial contests during the 1980s and 1990. In three of the four elections, independent media polls consistently over-predicted the margin of victory for the black candidates. And in the Helms-Gantt 1990 Senate race, the polls under-predicted the margin of victory for the white candidate. The main cause of these errors seems to have been the difficulty of measuring support for the white candidates. Two separate polls of likely voters taken in the final week of the 1989 campaign for governor in Virginia, for example, showed Democrat L. Douglas Wilder leading by 9 to 11 percentage points. Days later, Wilder won the election by less than 7,000 votes -- a margin of four-tenths of a percentage point.
ccc
Non-Response Bias in Survey Research

Survey non-response is widely recognized as a potential source of error that can reduce the accuracy of all types of polls. Most non-response in telephone surveys is attributable to two factors. First, some of the people (or households) in a sample are never reached, most likely because they are not at home or do not answer the telephone during the period when a poll is being conducted. Second, other people are reached but refuse to participate in the poll. All surveys are hampered by non-response. Even the National Elections Studies and the General Social Survey -- academic surveys that are based on in-person interviewing -- tend to have non-response rates of 25 to 35 percent, and non-response in telephone surveys can, by several estimates, be at least 10 percentage points higher (Brehm 1993, pp. 16-17).(2)

There are several ways to lower the non-response rates in surveys. Polls can be conducted over a longer time period, which provides more opportunities to place calls to hard-to-reach people. In addition, survey organizations can attempt refusal conversions by calling back people who initially declined to participate in a poll and trying to gain their cooperation. Both of these measures not only increase the cost of conducting a survey, but are especially difficult for polls conducted over the course of only a few days, as many pre-election polls are.(3)

Non-response can bias survey estimates if those who do not participate in a survey hold substantially different attitudes than those who do participate.(4) Since those who are truly "non-respondents" are never interviewed, it is difficult to measure the extent to which the opinions of respondents and non-respondents actually differ. It is possible, however, to compare those who readily agreed to participate in a poll with those who at first refused -- people who are most likely to be left out in surveys that do not have either the time or resources required to attempt refusal conversions. That is the approach taken here.

The following analysis is based on polling conducted in the Summer of 1997 by the Pew Research Center as part of a comparison of various survey methodologies. One component of the experiment was an extended refusal-conversion effort. All interview breakoffs and refusals were contacted again -- and in many cases twice, if necessary -- to attempt to complete the interview. In addition, many of those who refused to be interviewed after two calls were sent a conversion letter by priority mail before they were called a third time.

The results presented here offer new insights into a challenge that confronts all survey research -- especially quickly-conducted pre-election polls that may not have either the time or financial resources required to gain the cooperation of those who at first refuse to participate in telephone surveys. We compare the attitudes of two groups of respondents: "amenable respondents" who agreed to participate in the poll the first time they were contacted, and "reluctant respondents" who initially refused to participate and cooperated only after one or more callbacks.(5) Because the largest differences between the two groups emerge on racial attitudes, the following analysis is restricted to white respondents only.


Comparing Amenable and Reluctant Respondents


In most respects, amenable respondents and reluctant respondents are remarkably similar to one another.(6) The group of reluctant respondents does not contain disproportionately more or less men, minorities, or younger people (see Table 1). There were also no notable differences in level of education between the two groups, and responses to three knowledge questions do not offer consistent evidence that reluctant respondents are significantly less informed about current events. A slightly greater number of amenable respondents knew that former Senator Bob Dole had recently loaned Newt Gingrich money to pay off the House Speaker's ethics fines (39% among amenable respondents, compared to 32% among reluctant respondents). But two other knowledge questions -- concerning majority control of the House of Representatives and identification of Microsoft CEO Bill Gates -- did not reveal any statistically significant differences between the two groups.

Amenable and reluctant respondents did differ on one demographic measure: income. Nearly one-third (31%) of the reluctant respondents had family incomes of $50,000 or more, compared to 24 percent of amenable respondents.

Reluctant respondents do not appear to be more suspicious than amenable respondents in how they view other people. There are no significant differences between the proportion in each group who agree that people can be trusted, are likely to take advantage of others, or are likely to be helpful. Nor do amenable and reluctant respondents differ significantly in their views toward public opinion polls. Roughly two-thirds in each group said that polls work for -- rather than against -- the "best interests of the general public" (66% among amenable respondents compared to 65% among reluctant respondents), although as many in each group (65% and 68%, respectively) doubted that a random sample of 1,500 people can "accurately reflect the views" of the American public.

Critics of media polls have argued that surveys overstate support for Democratic candidates and underestimate conservative opinions -- possibly because conservatives are more likely to refuse to participate in polls.(7) But a number of measures give no indication that reluctant respondents are significantly more conservative than amenable respondents. Both groups of respondents include comparable percentages of Democrats and Republicans, and of self-described liberals and conservatives. Questions on a range of political values also revealed no differences between amenable and reluctant respondents.


Sharp Differences on Racial Attitudes


The two groups hold strikingly different views, however, on several race-related questions, with reluctant respondents significantly less sympathetic than amenable respondents toward African-Americans. Three of four questions measuring racial attitudes revealed statistically significant differences of nine percentage points or more between the two groups. Just 15% of reluctant respondents said they hold a "very favorable" opinion of blacks, for example, compared to 24% of amenable respondents. Similarly, fully 70% of reluctant respondents agreed with the statement that blacks who "can't get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition," while just 21% agreed that racial discrimination is the "main reason why many black people can't get ahead". This compares with a much narrower 54%­33% margin among amenable respondents.

The differences between amenable and reluctant respondents are equally large on a proposed national apology for slavery, an idea floated by President Clinton in the summer of 1997. Fully 68% of reluctant respondents said they opposed a national apology, compared to just 53% of amenable respondents.(8)

Race-of-interviewer effects seem to explain some -- but not all -- of the differences between amenable and reluctant respondents. Most of those who initially agreed to participate in the survey were called and interviewed by African-American interviewers (69%). In contrast, most of the reluctant respondents (66%), who were called back one or more times for a refusal conversion attempt, were called and ultimately interviewed by a non-black interviewer. Clearly, the way some white respondents answer questions about racial issues may vary, depending on the race of the person conducting the interview. Even in telephone surveys, white respondents have been found to be much less likely to reveal racially-biased attitudes when being interviewed by a black person (Cotter, Cohen, and Coulter 1982; Hatchett and Schuman 1975-76). Consequently, the differences in racial attitudes between amenable and reluctant respondents might reasonably be explained by the differences in the race of the interviewers between the two groups.


There are substantial race-of-interviewer effects on questions concerning racial issues, and these effects can be seen among both amenable and reluctant respondents. Amenable respondents who were interviewed by a non-black interviewer were more likely than those interviewed by a black interviewer to blame blacks for their own condition, and less likely to favor a national apology for slavery. Similarly, reluctant respondents who were interviewed by a non-black interviewer expressed less favorable views of blacks and were more strongly opposed to a slavery apology than those interviewed by a black interviewer.

Nonetheless, when comparing only those respondents who were interviewed by a non-black interviewer, thus controlling for any interviewer effects, reluctant respondents remain consistently less sympathetic toward blacks. The largest gap can be seen on the issue of a national apology for slavery. Reluctant respondents who were interviewed by a non-black interviewer opposed an apology by a margin of 74% to 21%, while amenable respondents interviewed by a non-black opposed it by a much more narrow 59% to 33% margin. Statistically significant gaps are also apparent on two other race measures. On favorability toward blacks, 12% of reluctant respondents characterize their opinion as "very favorable" compared to 23% of amenable respondents. Fully 72% of reluctant respondents say blacks are responsible for their own condition, compared to 61% of amenable respondents.

Remarkably, on this same measure, there is a significant difference in opinion even between respondents who were interviewed by black interviewers. Two-thirds (66%) of the reluctant respondents blame blacks for their own circumstances compared to 51% of amenable respondents.

In fact, the differences between amenable and reluctant respondents on race questions are statistically significant even when a number of attitudinal and methodological factors are taken into account. The evidence for this is in Table 2, which presents the results of two multiple regression equations. Respondents' overall opinion toward blacks is the dependent variable in one equation, and their views concerning why "many black people can't get ahead" is the dependent variable in the other.

Both equations include variables controlling for a range of differences across respondents. As noted above, the survey data used in this analysis were collected as part of a broader comparison of methodologies. The "amenable respondents" analyzed here come from the standard, five-day survey which used a systematic but non-random selection procedure within households, while roughly 40% of the "reluctant respondents" analyzed here come from the more rigorous survey, which used a random-selection procedure. Therefore, the estimations include a dichotomous variable controlling for whether respondents were polled as part of the standard or rigorous survey. In addition, another variable is included to account for any race-of-interviewer effects. The estimations include several other controls, including variables for sex, age, education, income, region (a dummy variable for respondents from Southern states), and a measure of political ideology. Finally, a dummy variable is included to estimate the differences between amenable and reluctant respondents.

Though the regression models have little predictive power, they provide further evidence for the main conclusions drawn here: as a group, reluctant respondents are significantly less sympathetic than amenable respondents toward blacks, even when political ideology, level of education, race of interviewer, and other factors are taken into account. On the question of why many blacks can't get ahead, being a reluctant respondent is strongly and significantly (p < .01) related to seeing blacks themselves, rather than racial discrimination, as responsible for their current situation. This pattern is evident even when controlling for a number of other statistically significant predictors, including education, region, ideology, and race of interviewer. Similarly, reluctant respondents are on average less likely to hold a favorable opinion of blacks, although the results based on this question are somewhat weaker. In this estimation fewer variables are significantly related to favorability toward blacks, but the coefficient for those who initially refused to participate in the poll remains statistically significant (p < .01).


Conclusion

The sharp differences between amenable and reluctant respondents on race-related questions may offer new insights into the difficulties involved in pre-election polling in biracial elections. In a number of competitive biracial contests in recent decades, surveys conducted even a few days before voters went to the polls have substantially underestimated support for the white candidate. The results presented here suggest that this phenomenon, sometimes called "racial slippage", may be due in part to the inability of quickly-conducted pre-election polls to reach reluctant respondents -- people who are less likely to participate in polls and, just as important, much less sympathetic toward African-Americans. Significant differences between amenable and reluctant respondents are evident on three of four questions involving race relations, even when race-of-interviewer effects and a number of other attitudinal factors are taken into account.

Nonetheless, the evidence presented here is only suggestive. The surveys used for this analysis were not themselves pre-election polls -- rather, they were conducted during the summer of 1997 as part of a broader comparison of survey methodologies. Consequently, there is no direct evidence that the differences between amenable and reluctant respondents on racial issues would translate into similar differences in the voting behavior of these two groups in biracial elections. At the same time, the significant gaps between amenable and reluctant respondents on race-related questions are consistent with the pattern of underestimating support for white candidates in biracial contests. This suggests non-response may be an especially important concern for pre-election polling in these biracial elections.


END NOTES

1. See, for example, "An Underdog Forces Helms Into a Surprisingly Tight Race," The New York Times, October 31, 1990, p.1; "Helms, Gantt Take Off the Gloves," Chicago Tribune, October 31, 1990, p.1; "Race Is Getting Closer, Mayoral Candidates Agree", The New York Times, October 24, 1989, p. 1; Associated Press report on Chicago mayor's race, April 6, 1983.

2. A recent study by the Council for Marketing and Opinion Research, for example, found that throughout the 1990s refusal rates in telephone surveys have exceeded 50% of potential respondents who were contacted. See "Respondent Cooperation and Industry Image Survey", June 1996.

3. One survey of polling organizations found that more than 80% of the polls did not conduct refusal conversions in pre-election polls (Crespi 1988, pp. 47-48).

4. Most polling organizations use weighting techniques, typically based on the demographic characteristics of a sample, to compensate for the known underrepresentation of some groups.

5. Technically, the comparisons are between amenable households (those with no refusals) and reluctant households (those where one or more refusals occurred), since for all cases except one-person households it is impossible to know whether the same person refused and later granted an interview. The Pew Research Center experiment involved two identical national telephone surveys that differed only in their administration. One survey, designed to represent a standard media poll, was conducted over a five-day period. At least five attempts were made to reach a potential respondent at every sampled telephone number. All interview breakoffs and refusals were contacted at least once in an attempt to convert them to completed interviews. The second survey was conducted over an eight-week period and involved a more rigorous approach in several ways. There was no limit on the number of attempts to reach a potential respondent at sampled telephone numbers. All interview breakoffs and refusals were contacted up to two additional times, if necessary, in an attempt to convert them to completed interviews. Moreover, for households with a known mailing address, respondents who refused to be interviewed after two calls were sent a conversion letter by priority mail before they were called a third time. The analysis in this paper is based on two groups of respondents. Amenable respondents are defined as those contacted for the standard, five-day survey who participated in the poll the first time they were contacted. Reluctant respondents are defined as those who were contacted in either survey who initially refused to be interviewed and agreed to participate only after one or more callbacks. There were additional methodological differences between the standard five-day survey and the more rigorous survey, as well (see Appendix 1). However, as noted below, the results presented here concerning the differences in racial attitudes between amenable respondents and reluctant respondents are evident even when the additional methodological differences between the two surveys are taken into account.

6. All of the results presented in this paper, except for the demographic profile in Table 1 and the regression results in Table 2, are based on weighted data. The results are the same when based on unweighted data.

7. For example, political analyst Michael Barone notes: "One theory -- and it is no more than a theory so far -- is that conservatives are more likely than others to refuse to respond to polls, particularly those polls taken by media outlets that conservatives consider biased. If so, they're hurting their own cause." (See "The GOP: Winners Who Act Like Losers", The Weekly Standard, March 10, 1997.)

8. Public support for a national apology for slavery appeared to weaken over the course of the summer of 1997. Separate polls conducted by the Gallup Organization in late June and by the Pew Research Center in August found roughly 60% of Americans opposing an apology. However, the differences between amenable and reluctant respondents on the apology question cannot be explained entirely by the fact that many reluctant respondents were interviewed later in the summer, while all amenable respondents analyzed here were interviewed between June 18 and 22. Even among respondents interviewed during this initial five-day field period, reluctant respondents are significantly more likely than amenable respondents to oppose a national apology for slavery.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 08:38 pm
It is clear, unless you can in some way rebut the findings in the previous post, Mr. Nimh, that you do not know as much about US voting patterns as you think you do.

I am sure you can read the report for yourself, but I must point out that the Pew Organization suggests and indeed shows, that people polled OFTEN DO NOT OFFER AN OPINION ABOUT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN CANDIDATE-these are many of the non-respondents AND THAT MANY WHO DO RESPOND, AS IT IS CLEAR FROM THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE OPINION POLLS BEFORE THE ELECTION AS COMPARED TO THE ELECTION ITSELF, SAY THEY WILL VOTE FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN CANDIDATE AND THEN THEY DO NOT DO SO.


Thank you, sir, for keeping our interchange on a gentlemanly level!!!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 09:07 pm
nimh wrote:
nimh wrote:
When - say - Finn loves to rebuke someone from his political persuasion, but looks the other way when someone from the others' persuasion does the same thing, he's just not being honest. He's being hypocritical.

This, obviously, was supposed to read the other way round - "when he loves to rebuke someone from the others' political persuasion, but looks the other way when someone from his own persuasion does the same thing".


I think everyone got your message nimh
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jul, 2006 09:13 pm
I eagerly await your reply to my post where I offered evidence for my position, Mr. Nimh!!!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 02:40 am
BernardR wrote:
I am stunned that Mr. Apisa rebutted my post by showing that my statements were untrue!!!

LOL!!!!


No need to deal with a racist like you rationally or logically, Bernie.

Rationality and logic do not work.

By now, the fine folk trying to respond to you that way realize they are talking to a wall...but apparently cannot stop trying.

Your words are an insult to rationality, logic, and humanity...and they deserve nothing but insult and scorn in return.

I am all too willing to accommodate!

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 03:04 am
nimh wrote:
Basically just common fairness, and honesty. Because, c.i., I really dont see the difference here...
...No surprise or anything - just, parsing about honesty vs fairness on this is kinda neither here nor there <shrugs>
Laughing Here you are clearly dropping the ball. C.I., I made friends with in Chicago and learned to like quite a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that he's among the most guilty of partisan side-taking. To skip that little fact in your current judgments is more than a little amusing. :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 03:21 am
BernardR wrote:
Mr. Nimh- sir- Not only do I have a point--I have evidence to show that African-American candidates do better in Polls than they do when the Election comes up. I have already explained why, but the following does a far better job than I can.

In short, your trumpeting of Obama's poll numbers does not and never will reflect the numbers he will receive, even in Illinois, when he runs for office.

Interesting article.

I dont think we're getting to any new point in this discussion, though. I mean, I have, in the main, already responded to your points - here. Your article talks of "slippage" - I already wrote that, even without reading any article about it, I was already assuming that there would be - just on gut feeling.

Where we differ is how you apply this bit of information. Yes, there will be slippage - of a few percentage points. I admit that I was surprised that the slippage was up to 10% in Wilder's case, but that was Virginia, and almost twenty years ago. Again more on gut feeling than anything else, I'd say that 17 years on, nation-wide, the slippage would be distinctly smaller, though of course still there.

There's the difference. I would say that the "racial slippage" in polling numbers means that if, as I wrote, Obama would hypothetically run for Presidency as the Democratic nominee, and in "the final week of the campaign is ahead by one or two percentage points, I would be very worried indeed." But if, like now, he gets a chart-topping 72% job approval rate, no realistic amount of "racial slippage" would change much about the fact that he's apparently greatly popular, with a cross-over appeal to Republicans/Independents. I mean, take 5% off of that rate, and its still near the very top of Senator approval rates.

The "racial slippage" you cite doesnt suddenly make all polling worthless. It just means you have to factor in a difference. The difference however will never be enough to turn a 72% approval rating into something merely mediocre or negative.

As for the the "poll numbers I'm trumpeting not reflecting the numbers he will receive" in a competitive race, well, of course not. This is a job approval rating, after all, not an opinion poll about the result of a competitive race. I am not expecting Obama to get 72% if he runs for Presidency ;-). But it is, again an indication of his ability to achieve great popularity, even among a mixed constituency with Republicans, Independents and a white majority.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 03:36 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
nimh wrote:
Basically just common fairness, and honesty. Because, c.i., I really dont see the difference here...
...No surprise or anything - just, parsing about honesty vs fairness on this is kinda neither here nor there <shrugs>

Laughing Here you are clearly dropping the ball. C.I., I made friends with in Chicago and learned to like quite a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that he's among the most guilty of partisan side-taking. To skip that little fact in your current judgments is more than a little amusing. :wink:

Huh?

c.i. and I have clashed in the past before (I hope he doesn't remember or hold it against me, of course, but we have ;-)), about times that he lambasted things or folks unfairly, IMO.

More than once, I believe.. ;-)

If and when I happen to run across a case where c.i. defends Roxx saying something when I know he woulda burst out if it had been Bernard, for example, I'll say something about it again.

What that has to do with this exchange? No idea, really. In this thread, its the opposite that happened - Finn keeping typically mum about Bernard's antics while taking any chance to berate his liberal critics - so I spoke up about that.

I mean, look, I'll say something whenever someone engages in that kind of partisan-filtered repudation, but do you really want me to only ever do so if, in the same breath, I also note whoever else among the current participants of the thread has also done the same in the past in other threads?

Even I am not that anal..
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 05:00 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
BernardR wrote:
I am stunned that Mr. Apisa rebutted my post by showing that my statements were untrue!!!

LOL!!!!


No need to deal with a racist like you rationally or logically, Bernie.

Rationality and logic do not work.

By now, the fine folk trying to respond to you that way realize they are talking to a wall...but apparently cannot stop trying.

Your words are an insult to rationality, logic, and humanity...and they deserve nothing but insult and scorn in return.

I am all too willing to accommodate!

Twisted Evil


My sentiments exactly.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:00 am
edgarblythe wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
BernardR wrote:
I am stunned that Mr. Apisa rebutted my post by showing that my statements were untrue!!!

LOL!!!!


No need to deal with a racist like you rationally or logically, Bernie.

Rationality and logic do not work.

By now, the fine folk trying to respond to you that way realize they are talking to a wall...but apparently cannot stop trying.

Your words are an insult to rationality, logic, and humanity...and they deserve nothing but insult and scorn in return.

I am all too willing to accommodate!

Twisted Evil


My sentiments exactly.


Glad we are on the same page on this one, Edgar. Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 09:15 am
I'm on the same page too! LOL
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 04:46 pm
Meanwhile, someone else is also making a bid to be the "not-Hillary" flavour du jour - in with the new, same as the old? (or how did that one go?)

Interesting stuff about the impact of the changed Democratic primary calendar, by the way.

Quote:
THE ASCENDANT CANDIDACY OF JOHN EDWARDS.
Poll Position

by Ryan Lizza
Only at TNR Online | Post date 07.27.06

t's now official: John Edwards is the new anti-Hillary. If you're not familiar with the term, "the anti-Hillary" is the shorthand used by political junkies to describe the Democratic candidate who will inevitably emerge as the principal alternative to Hillary Clinton, whose money and star power make her the dominant force in Democratic presidential politics.

Anti-Hillaries surface about once every four to six months. First, there was Russ Feingold, whose call for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq earned him a ride late last year as the antiwar anti-Hillary, a bold dove who contrasted with Clinton the cautious hawk. But other Democrats have crowded in on Feingold's antiwar turf. (By 2008, will any Democrat running for president still support a U.S. presence in Iraq?) This spring, Mark Warner, surfing a tide of national attention brought on by his success and popularity as governor of Virginia, emerged as the red-state anti-Hillary, a genial, problem-solving moderate who contrasted with Clinton the polarizing former first lady.

Edwards's turn as the anti-Hillary has been building through the summer. First, there was the news last month that he was number one in The Des Moines Register's poll of likely 2008 presidential candidates, besting Clinton by four points. Political observers took notice and saw a savvy strategy at work: While shunning the Beltway press, Edwards had been moving around the country assiduously courting labor unions and quietly repudiating his support for the war in Iraq. His anti-Hillary bona fides were sealed on Saturday, when a Democratic National Committee (DNC) panel approved a plan to bookend the New Hampshire primary with contests in Nevada and South Carolina, creating a schedule that seems tailored to Edwards's strengths.

Feingold seems destined to fill the role of niche candidate, rather than serious Clinton alternative, and the jury is still out on how big a threat Warner will be. But Edwards may indeed represent the clearest and most direct challenge to Clinton. Here's why:

Iowa

The greatest impact of the new primary calendar, which still must be finalized by the DNC, may be that it increases the influence of Iowa. The front-loading of the process--there will be four contests in 15 days--may create so much momentum for the victor in Iowa that he or she wraps up the nomination before any of the other 46 states get to vote. Edwards's strength in Iowa rests on a unique mix of assets that no other candidate can currently match: He has both high positives and low negatives--in other words, lots of friends and few enemies. An unknown candidate like Warner has neither, and a too-well-known candidate like Clinton has both. The reason for Edwards's healthy political profile is that he surged into second place in Iowa in 2004 during the final week of the campaign and was thus never a target of negative campaigning. This time around, he will be hit early and often, but he will start the race from an enviable position.

Nevada

Edwards seems to be the candidate making the greatest strides with the labor movement. It all started in 2004 when, trying to differentiate himself from John Kerry after the Iowa caucuses, Edwards attacked Kerry's stance on free trade and tried to scrape together some union backing. Only one union supported Edwards in that short, quixotic bid to overthrow Kerry: the textile union UNITE, which had supported him in his 1998 Senate bid in North Carolina. It has continued to be an important alliance.

In the summer of 2004, UNITE merged with the hotel and restaurant workers union HERE (it was an ideal marriage: UNITE had money, and HERE had members). After the election, Edwards continued a close relationship with the new UNITE HERE union and especially its general president, Bruce Raynor, who engineered UNITE's 2004 endorsement of Edwards. Union sources credit this relationship with Edwards's current emphasis on poverty and the minimum wage. "Raynor and others at UNITE HERE start talking to Edwards about poverty and low-wage issues," explains one union strategist, "and someone starts telling him that unions are the best poverty prevention program in America. And Edwards, out of conviction or opportunism or whatever combination drives politicians, buys it." The upshot is that Edwards has become a darling of the labor left, especially the more modern and progressive unions that represent service employees. And it just happens that one of the most powerful players in Democratic politics in the newly influential caucus state of Nevada is the Culinary Workers Union Local 226, which represents 60,000 employees, mostly in the gambling industry, and is an affiliate of the Edwards-friendly UNITE HERE.

Edwards's success with unions, one of the institutional pillars of Clinton's campaign, has started to rattle Hillaryland. In March, when Change to Win, the new labor umbrella group that includes UNITE HERE and several other large unions, held a convention in Las Vegas, only one prospective 2008 candidate spoke to the group: Edwards. But Hillary Clinton happened to have a friend in town as well: Bill. According to a labor source in Nevada, Clinton's husband flew in and met secretly with seven union presidents at the Change to Win convention. His message: Don't commit to anyone, and give Hillary a fighting chance. A spokesman for Bill Clinton confirmed the meeting took place but says 2008 wasn't discussed.

South Carolina

Clinton's firewall, if she is defeated in an early contest, is South Carolina, where she is counting on the Clinton name to help her among African-American voters, who make up about half of the Democratic primary electorate. But Edwards was born in the state, and his anti-poverty pitch seems in tune with voters there. He also won the South Carolina primary by 15 points in 2004.

More generally, Edwards has a unique message that takes advantage of two of Clinton's vulnerabilities. He has moved left on the war like Feingold, but he maintains an aura of general-election electability like Warner. And perhaps most importantly, he has the experience of running once before without the fatigue factor that sometimes hampers a repeat contender. A southern, moderate, antiwar, pro-labor candidate with low negatives and high positives who has already run for president is not a bad combination. He's the new anti-Hillary--at least for the next few months.
0 Replies
 
BernardR
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 04:54 pm
He very well may be the standard bearer for the Democrats, Mr. Nimh.

He is young, fluent, attractive, from a Southern State. and has political experience. but it is my considered opinion that he does not have a chance to be elected-not when the people of the United States understand his background.

He is a white-shoe ambulance chaser. He has made his fortune by finding poor unfortunates like the young girl who nearly had her intestines sucked out at the bottom of the pool she was swimming in when the grate was missing and she was captured by the intense pressure.

They will learn just how much the "idealistic" ambulance chaser received for his work on behalf of the young lady.

When the awards are announced, some are now aware that the ambulance chasers get from 40 to 60 percent of the award for expenses and fee.

Not bad when the jury awards 20 Million, is it.

But, if Hillary is the only one Senator Edwards will be facing, he may have a chance. He is a crook taking his money legally. Hillary, on the other hand, is an all out extortionist(See cattle futures debacle)
0 Replies
 
Dizzy Delicious
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 06:59 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm on the same page too! LOL


Sounds like a crowded page. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Dizzy Delicious
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 07:06 pm
BernardR wrote:
Dizzy Delicious- Obama will do nothing about the illegals. He is an illegal himself in many ways. First of all, he is from Hawaii, the son of a Keyan father who deserted him when he was a child and a Caucasian mother originally from Kansas. He must have a real empathy for illegals since he attended a Muslim school for two years.

Many admire Obama since he attended Harvard Law School. They do not know that Harvard Law School not only seeks minority students but they actively look for people who are from states which usually send few students to Harvard. In short, Dizzy Delicious, it is clear that Obama is really ovedtouted. As you pointed out, he has written off Jesse Jackson and Jesse's Organization. Obama is so non-discrimatory, as you pointed out, that he uses a Hispanic Nanny for his children instead of African-Americans. If you know Chicago, and you seem to know it well, Hyde Park is loaded with very well qualified African-American nannies.


Could it be, Dizzy Delicious, that Obama is trying to pass?


Might be true, BernardR. Could be that Obama is also an "oreo" or perhaps (!) an "eggplant". I find it very hard to believe that his wife, a Professor at the University of Chicago School of Law has very much in common with many or even any of the unwed black mothers on Chicago's West and South sides.

Obama should look at the labors of Mayor Daley and get in touch with the real needs of the poor Blacks of Chicago and the rest of this country. Will he? I doubt it and I also doubt that Obama could become President. Why should he?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 07:40 pm
BernardR wrote:
But, if Hillary is the only one Senator Edwards will be facing, he may have a chance.

Well, there's something we can agree on - but here's hoping the Dems will have a better choice than that..
0 Replies
 
Dizzy Delicious
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 07:46 pm
Edwards won't be running for any office, because of his very ill wife.
0 Replies
 
Dizzy Delicious
 
  1  
Mon 31 Jul, 2006 07:48 pm
The winners will be :

John MaCain for President and Mit Romney for VP.
0 Replies
 
 

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