cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:57 am
From blueflame's article a few pages back: Neutral"George Orwell rightly warned us about the way politicians use words like "freedom" when such usage begs more questions than it answers. "Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way," he wrote in his famous essay Politics and the English Language. "That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different."

Clinton's audience certainly thought that what she was doing was standing four-square behind the veterans. That was they way they took it, and applauded her accordingly. Perhaps, though, before they make their choices tomorrow, the voters of Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont should reread her words and ask themselves what the hell she really meant.

This is what her desperation has done; she has shown her true colors of deception to twist words that will win her votes. How can people continue to trust her?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 10:59 am
It's somewhat similar to what Bush has done with his rhetoric about "support our troops" while he continued to cut their benefits and services. Thirty percent of Americans still "buy" that stuff.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:26 am
Well I hope today is decisive and Obama wins and Hillary retires gracefully.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:37 am
blatham wrote:
Thanks, fellas. I've found this discussion clarifying. Snood, clearly, is the problem.

Snood thinks about race. He thinks about the history of blacks in America. He thinks about the culture of african-americans. He thinks about his skin color. He thinks about the history of whites in America. He thinks about the culture of european-americans. He thinks about their skin color.

And there's the problem of race in america right there. Snood and other blacks (and there's a few whites in here too) think about race.

They ought to stop thinking about this stuff because it is their thinking that now creates racism in america. The premise of their thinking is..."differences"! With that premise, it's no surprise that they will inevitably toss that race card out onto every table, scattering crumpet crumbs and jiggling teacups.

If they would just stop thinking "different!" and begin thinking "ditto!" or "copy" or "clone" or "facsimile" then race would no longer pose problems for everyone. Race would disappear as a factor in social and mental architecture.

Clearly, blacks like snood have commonly failed in this natural progression towards non-blackness because they haven't properly appreciated the vital non-blackness of the conservative world-view and value-set.


blatham wrote:
dys said
Quote:
I've found that by using an 18% gray card and adjusting shutter speed and/or the aperture size I can alter all people and the entire universe to a single neutral non-descript, valueless white rendering the concept "colour blind" with an entirely new meaning.


You're on to something, dys. If we can get the Polaroid people to make an attachment for black peoples' eyes and brains, then that would really help the efforts to get them color-blind.


I sense your sarcasm, blatham, and I want you to know I have had an epiphany ... you are absolutely right. We all (blacks, browns, whites, reds, yellows, etc.) should attend to life in a state of constant awareness of the color of our skin and the color of the skin of the people with whom we interact. I am sure -- now that I have had the benefit of your sage insight on this issue -- that this is the path towards ending racial tensions in America and elsewhere. We should not strive for a society where the color of one's skin does not matter ... a world where we live our lives blind to the blackness or whiteness of the person next to us. After all, the fact that there has been inequality because of skin quality only shows us all the more clearly the value of maintaining our own cultural and racial identities.

In fact, I'm henceforth going to make my voting decisions based upon the color of the skin of the candidate running. Clearly that is at least as -- if not more -- important that the candidate's stance with regard to any of the issues not involving skin color.

I am so fired up about this revelation, I'm going to go out right now and celebrate the color of my skin.

Viva la differance!
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:43 am
Make sure it is a Vanilla Milk Shake :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:45 am
Quote:
Viva la difference!


Indeed. Celebrate it. Like la difference between the US and France. Or between liberals and conservatives. Or between christian culture and muslim culture. Or between a lynching and an appointment to the supreme court.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:45 am
YEARS AGO, in ABUZZ for god's sake... I suggested that it become illegal to breed within one's own race for a generation and then we would have one beautiful homogonous race of people and all the women might end up looking like Maria Carey.

I was either ignored or denigrated.

Years later, democrats are coming their pants to worship and vote for a candidate who is just exactly the product of such racial interbreeding..... but do I get any credit? Hell no.

You can all kiss my ass. I'm a genius and you're all purposefully blind to my innovative thought processes.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 11:47 am
...or between BP's ass and Hagee's ass.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:06 pm
BPB wrote-

Quote:
I suggested that it become illegal to breed within one's own race for a generation and then we would have one beautiful homogonous race of people and all the women might end up looking like Maria Carey.


Is that a "Lady" position?

All the true racists would be deselected I fear and the demographics of that are unimaginable.

The men could all end up looking like Curtly Ambrose.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:08 pm
BTW BPB -- how illegal?
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:19 pm
spendius wrote:
BTW BPB -- how illegal?


illegal? questions of legality in government decisions officially became a moot point in america anyway in 2000AD
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:23 pm
Haven't looked in to these posts much lately and a quick perusal of the last few pages makes me glad I skipped it all. On all sides the rhetoric has degenerated to adolescent slams on others. Even posts that were obviously constructed to demonstrate superior irony end up rather limp and childish. Not much in these pages to recommend anyone here.

One with an open mind is usually able to conceive of the existence of a point of view or a body of basic beliefs different than his/her own that just might rationalize different opinions than his own. The most interesting part of discourse - if it can be achieved - is the discovery of the differences in viewpoint and basic beliefs that might be behind such differences in opinion, and, as well, of occasional inconsistencies in one's own opinions. Not much of this to be found here.

I do note the degree to which the subject has strayed from an examination of the wonders of Obama - the bounds established by the majority ten or twenty pages back. This may suggest (to some at least) the futility of an attempt to enforce such boundaries in an open forum.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:24 pm
That's for dang sure! Bush destroyed not only our economy, but also our legal system. Congress has to share in the destruction of both.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:34 pm
I've been reading that Clinton has the strong support of Hispanics, but what has Hillary (ir even Bill) ever done for Hispanics in her 35 years?

Does anybody know the reason for this support?
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:39 pm
While Obama's Ohio Nafta speeches were heavily covered in the news, I haven't read much that he used the same tactic in Texas. This might be why:

Quote:
Texas v. Ohio
March 3, 2008; Page A16

As Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton race around Ohio and Texas for tomorrow's primaries, they are telling a tale of economic woe. Yet the real story isn't how similar the two states are economically but how different. Texas has been prospering while Ohio lags, and the reasons are instructive about what works and what doesn't in economic policy.

There's no doubt times are tough in Ohio. The state has lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs since 2000, home foreclosures are soaring, and real family income is lower now than in 2000. Meanwhile, the Texas economy has boomed since 2004, with nearly twice the rate of new job creation as the rest of the nation. The nearby table compares the states over a decade or so.

Let's start with the fact that Texas's growth puts the lie to the myth that free trade costs American jobs. Anti-Nafta rhetoric doesn't play well in El Paso, San Antonio and Houston, which have become gateway cities for commerce with Latin America and have flourished since the North American Free Trade Agreement passed Congress in 1993. Mr. Obama's claim of one million lost jobs due to trade deals is laughable in Texas, the state most affected by Nafta. Texas has gained 36,000 manufacturing jobs since 2004 and has ranked as the nation's top exporting state for six years in a row. Its $168 billion of exports in 2007 translate into tens of thousands of jobs.

Ohio, Indiana and Michigan are losing auto jobs, but many of these "runaway plants" are not fleeing to China, Mexico or India. They've moved to more business-friendly U.S. states, including Texas. GM recently announced plans for a new plant to build hybrid cars. Guess where? Near Dallas. In 2006 the Lone Star State exported $5.5 billion of cars and trucks to Mexico and $2.4 billion worth to Canada.

Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, a Democrat who supports Mrs. Clinton, blames his state's problems on President Bush. But Ohio's economy has been struggling for years, and most of its wounds are self-inflicted. Ohio now ranks 47th out of 50 in economic competitiveness, according to the American Legislative Exchange Council. Ohio politicians deplore plant closings even as they impose the third highest corporate income tax in the country (10.5%) and the sixth highest personal income tax (8.87%). A common joke is that Ohio lays out the red carpet for companies -- when they leave the state. By contrast, Texas has no income tax, a huge competitive advantage.

Ohio's most crippling handicap may be that its politicians -- and thus its employers -- are still in the grip of such industrial unions as the United Auto Workers. Ohio is a "closed shop" state, which means workers can be forced to join a union whether they wish to or not. Many companies -- especially foreign-owned -- say they will not even consider such locations for new sites. States with "right to work" laws that make union organizing more difficult had twice the job growth of Ohio and other forced union states from 1995-2005, according to the National Institute for Labor Relations.

On the other hand, Texas is a right to work state and has been adding jobs by the tens of thousands. Nearly 1,000 new plants have been built in Texas since 2005, from the likes of Microsoft, Samsung and Fujitsu. Foreign-owned companies supplied the state with 345,000 jobs. No wonder Texans don't fear global competition the way some Presidential candidates do.

So tomorrow the eyes of America will be on these two states moving in different directions. Ohio has an economy burdened by high taxes and work rules that impose heavy costs on employers. Texas embraces free trade, keeps taxes low, doesn't impose unions on business and has tooled itself for 21st century global competition. Ohioans may not like to hear this, but for any company considering where to locate a new plant or move an existing one, the choice between Ohio and Texas isn't even a close call.

The challenge for our national economy in a world of competition is to become more like Texas and less like Ohio.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120450306595906431.html?mod=opinion_main_review_and_outlooks


Disclaimer: Not saying he hasn't slammed Nafta in TX, just that I haven't seen evidence of it.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 12:51 pm
sozobe wrote:


Thanks - I don't know how this got posted twice, but not intentional
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 01:00 pm
sozobe wrote:
I'm glad that you were all able to be with her at the end, Lola.



Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Under what scenario does Obama secure the number of delegates to outright lock in the nomination?


There are lots of scenarios in which he does increasingly better as the primaries wear on and as people increasingly want to bring the process to a close. If he becomes the prohibitive front-runner, superdelegates (undeclared and formerly in the Hillary column) could make it known that they will be supporting him, putting him over the top.

This scenario will require Hillary to lose virtually all of the next five or six primaries and an overwhelming revolt of her pledged delegates. Anything is possible, but this is not likely to happen.



Quote:
You and other Obama supporters are assuming that if he is in the lead when the convention comes around,it's all over. Why? Why have a magic number if it doesn't mean anything?


The number just means that's it, the automatic number has been reached and nothing more needs to be done. If it's less than that number, then other elements come in -- like superdelegates.

My point exactly. If he doesn't lock her out with his delegate count he is going to have to resort to good old fashioned bare knuckle politics, like contributing close to 5 times more money than her to superdelegate election campaigns. In back room political infighting she has as good a chance as him (albeit less money). Again, no reason to concede.

That's where announcements like Richardson's become important.

Quote:
Your Party has created these rules, and you want to ignore them because your guy is in the lead. Understandable --- I'd be there with you if I was an Obama supporter, but I'd like to think I wouldn't get the self-righteous ass if Hillary didn't see it my way and refused to concede.

Not to say that you personally have a problem with her not conceding but there is a sense of same out there


I don't have a problem with her not conceding now. I may or may not have a problem as of Wednesday morning.

If at that point she has a "chance" but a vanishingly small one, I do think she should concede. There is just too much of an advantage ceded to the Republicans if the Democratic front-runner has to compete on two fronts -- against his Democratic opponent and also his Republican opponent.

I have a feeling that the definition of a "vanishingly small chance at winning" is different in the Obama camp as opposed to the Clinton camp.

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 01:06 pm
Quote:


This scenario will require Hillary to lose virtually all of the next five or six primaries and an overwhelming revolt of her pledged delegates. Anything is possible, but this is not likely to happen.


This is untrue.

If Obama and Hillary were to split evenly EVERY primary and SD which is left, Obama would have enough to win. If he increases his lead any farther from this point tonight, then he will DEFINATELY have enough to win with and even split. If more SD's start going for him then Hillary, then he needs even less to win.

And we're talking about hitting that 2021 number and locking the thing up. If Obama gets far enough ahead, Hillary starts having to win states by 65 and 70 % or MORE - just to catch up. That's the whole point; when the math gets bad enough for Hillary the calls to quit will rise up, her fundraising will dry up, and the Super-delegates will switch over to Obama.

If something like 40 of her SD's switch to Obama, she practically cannot win the nomination. So. There's lots of ways for her to lose, and only a few ways for her to win at this point.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 01:10 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
Hopefully, Obama will win the popular vote in Texas and we can say goodbye to Hillary, she will try to hang in but the powers that be will force her out if she loses Texas or Ohio. Her kitchen sink strategy has slowed Obama's momentum. I guess that's why you never count a Clinton out. They are as bad as the Republicans with their win-at-any-cost philosophy.


Roxxxanne,
I thought I was the only one who felt as you do. I really liked her and admired both of them, until I read what really happened and how I was bamboozled, by both of them. They know how to fabricate an image that on the surface, looks positive, but in reality, they both serve their own interests and until you expose their actions, for what they are, they get a "bye" from the public! They're the BEST "smoke and mirrors" team, I've seen for some time!

Here are a few:
1. Clinton changed welfare as we know it, by cutting benefits and an eventual cut-off from the system. It hurt a lot of single moms, divorcees without the benefit of child support and the elderly poor.

2. Clinton changed the 1934 Communications Act, allowing what we now see on TV, conglomeration of communications, ex: newspapers owning tv stations, magazines and everything the original act, guarded against. You now have Clear Channel and Fox, channeling the same story at the same time on every station. If we had a national emergency, there's no one at the wheel "live", because programming is "canned" and played ad nauseum, everywhere, at the same time! The USA didn't want a version of Pravda! We are screwed, but a lot of us don't know it yet!

3. Nafta! Need I say more? Poisonous toys, plastic in canned goods, poisonous dog food, less than safe beef/meat, in general!



:wink:
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 4 Mar, 2008 01:14 pm
That's the nub for Hillary; if she losses today, her funds will dry up. The question becomes, how much does she have to lose to lose her funding base?

Super delegates aren't going to support her if she losses today.
0 Replies
 
 

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