snood
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 12:41 pm
mysteryman wrote:
snood wrote:
Keep tryin tho, nappybrain. Your repetitious, juvenile and predictable attempts just keep looking sillier and more transparent.


As do ci's, but that doesnt stop him from lying either.


That was unrelated and a little grasping.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 12:43 pm
snood wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
snood wrote:
Keep tryin tho, nappybrain. Your repetitious, juvenile and predictable attempts just keep looking sillier and more transparent.


As do ci's, but that doesnt stop him from lying either.


That was unrelated and a little grasping.


No, it was true and related.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 12:49 pm
Man, I'm already sick of this guy and he hasn't even become the goddammed nominee yet.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 12:53 pm
kickycan wrote:
Man, I'm already sick of this guy and he hasn't even become the goddammed nominee yet.


Aw dude - McCain deserves better than that.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 01:29 pm
Spin this:

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/78053/

Quote:
The [SNL] show recognized what many observers had come to feel: that the media has conducted itself poorly and are worthy of parody. And watching Tim Russert, parodying himself in Tuesday night's debate, scowling eyebrows, raised voice, blustery manner and slightly weird questions -- encapsulated what's wrong with the media. Tim seemed to have the mistaken belief that he was the third debater, an impression only heightened after the debate when Chris Matthews repeatedly lauded Russert on "reeling in" Hillary Clinton with a question on her war vote. Increasingly the media has become the story -- and not such a complimentary one. While the "serious" reporters and pundits were this morning condescending of Clinton's mention of the comedy show, SNL's take on the coverage seems at least as informative as what shows up on nightly cable shows.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 01:30 pm
Lola wrote:
Spin this:

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/78053/

Quote:
The [SNL] show recognized what many observers had come to feel: that the media has conducted itself poorly and are worthy of parody. And watching Tim Russert, parodying himself in Tuesday night's debate, scowling eyebrows, raised voice, blustery manner and slightly weird questions -- encapsulated what's wrong with the media. Tim seemed to have the mistaken belief that he was the third debater, an impression only heightened after the debate when Chris Matthews repeatedly lauded Russert on "reeling in" Hillary Clinton with a question on her war vote. Increasingly the media has become the story -- and not such a complimentary one. While the "serious" reporters and pundits were this morning condescending of Clinton's mention of the comedy show, SNL's take on the coverage seems at least as informative as what shows up on nightly cable shows.


Spin what, exactly?

Hillary shouldn't have referenced SNL in the debate. It made her look petty and small and failed completely.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 01:32 pm
Sorry, I just like this picture....



http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/13042/original.jpg
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 01:46 pm
snood wrote:
Sorry, I just like this picture....



http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/13042/original.jpg


Geez, look at all the wads of gum stuck to the bottom of those shoes. For someone who can walk on water, you'd think he'd have cleaner soles. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 01:59 pm
Lola wrote:
Spin this:

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/78053/

Quote:
The [SNL] show recognized what many observers had come to feel: that the media has conducted itself poorly and are worthy of parody. And watching Tim Russert, parodying himself in Tuesday night's debate, scowling eyebrows, raised voice, blustery manner and slightly weird questions -- encapsulated what's wrong with the media. Tim seemed to have the mistaken belief that he was the third debater, an impression only heightened after the debate when Chris Matthews repeatedly lauded Russert on "reeling in" Hillary Clinton with a question on her war vote. Increasingly the media has become the story -- and not such a complimentary one. While the "serious" reporters and pundits were this morning condescending of Clinton's mention of the comedy show, SNL's take on the coverage seems at least as informative as what shows up on nightly cable shows.


The irony is that we have an Alternet columnist writing about a comedy skit from a late-night comedy show and using it as an example of how the media has fallen down on the job when it comes to substantive coverage of the candidates. We also have a presidential candidate pointing to that same comedy skit in a debate to make a point about that lack of sunstantive coverage and the unfairness of it to her. Yet, in both instances the Slate commentator and the presidential candidate did not themselves use their time in the debate or the column to do what they are objecting to. Instead, they perpetuate the lack of substantive information by just pointing to a skit on a comedy show and expecting someone else to do it for them.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 02:01 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
snood wrote:
Sorry, I just like this picture....



http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/13042/original.jpg


Geez, look at all the wads of gum stuck to the bottom of those shoes. For someone who can walk on water, you'd think he'd have cleaner soles. :wink:


you just gotta know where the rocks are....
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 02:26 pm
http://www.balloon-juice.com/managed-images/racits.jpg

Vandalism on the side of the Obama HQ in Gregg county, TX.

About sums up a lot of the Obama haters pretty well.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 02:59 pm
Do you consider all who oppose Obama to be "Obama haters"? You appear to imply that. Actually many who oppose his candidacy can spell better than that.

You have repeatedly asserted that anyone who believes his rhetoric may involve more promises than he can deliver or have even suggested that his promises and "programs" tend to be long on promise and short on detail, must necessarily be speaking out of ignorance of the revealed word on his web site.

You are categorical in your denunciations of the character and personal attributes of those who dare to oppose your favored candidate. Many would find that to be a state suggestive of a narrow-minded zealot, full of intolerance and venom. Is that how you are, or wish to be seen?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:07 pm
About sums up a lot of the Obama supporters pretty well.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:13 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you consider all who oppose Obama to be "Obama haters"? You appear to imply that. Actually many who oppose his candidacy can spell better than that.


George, do you think the (spelling-challenged) people who spray-painted "racists" on the side of Obama's campaign HQ could reasonably be described as Obama-haters?

How would you describe the person or people who spray-painted "coward" or "liar" (or "caward" or "lyer") on the side of McCain's campaign HQ? Would "McCain-hater" be such a stretch?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:15 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you consider all who oppose Obama to be "Obama haters"? You appear to imply that. Actually many who oppose his candidacy can spell better than that.

You have repeatedly asserted that anyone who believes his rhetoric may involve more promises than he can deliver or have even suggested that his promises and "programs" tend to be long on promise and short on detail, must necessarily be speaking out of ignorance of the revealed word on his web site.

You are categorical in your denunciations of the character and personal attributes of those who dare to oppose your favored candidate. Many would find that to be a state suggestive of a narrow-minded zealot, full of intolerance and venom. Is that how you are, or wish to be seen?



Cyclo was kidding. Sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:31 pm
I generally don't react much to those things, knowing they come from the fringes of human knowledge and understanding.

I wasn't aware of the McCain events which you described, but I don't give them much attention either.

On these threads I generally assume I am in a dialogue with reasonable people who are willing to consider alternate possibilities and points of view compared to their own, and who are as interested in the substance of their disagreements with others as they are in mutual reinforcement. In short, that we are all engaged in individual struggles to find the truth and right understanding, but none of us is certain, beyond Doubt, that we have found it.

At the same time, I try to refrain from vague references to "____ haters" and the like, lest I give the impression that I am referring to a large fraction of the _____ opponents out there. Cyclo, unfortunately, was doing just that.

This sort of thing doesn't advance the political debate or contribute to our collective understanding of events that are already complex enough.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:38 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I generally don't react much to those things, knowing they come from the fringes of human knowledge and understanding.

I wasn't aware of the McCain events which you described, but I don't give them much attention either.


It was hypothetical. My point was merely that it seems pretty straightforward to me to refer to people who would take the trouble to spray-paint a (weird and misspelled) epithet on a given candidate's HQ as Obama haters.

The rest of what you said doesn't seem to follow (unless you're saying that you are the one who did the spray-painting, which I do NOT think you're saying...)

I don't think Cycloptichorn was referring to YOU at all -- though I'll let him speak for himself.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:42 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you consider all who oppose Obama to be "Obama haters"? You appear to imply that. Actually many who oppose his candidacy can spell better than that.

You have repeatedly asserted that anyone who believes his rhetoric may involve more promises than he can deliver or have even suggested that his promises and "programs" tend to be long on promise and short on detail, must necessarily be speaking out of ignorance of the revealed word on his web site.

You are categorical in your denunciations of the character and personal attributes of those who dare to oppose your favored candidate. Many would find that to be a state suggestive of a narrow-minded zealot, full of intolerance and venom. Is that how you are, or wish to be seen?


Hyperbole mixed with generalization and a dose of exaggeration doesn't a strong argument make, George.

Let me ask you a question: what new programs has McCain proposed? At all? What new ideas is he forwarding? I'm being honest as I haven't seen much in the way of policy proposals from him whatsoever.

I'll take a candidate who at least has proposals, over one who has none, any day.

I'm categorical in my denunciations of those who choose to insult someone using false terms and straw-men, yes. There are plenty of good reasons to be against Obama, not the least of which being the fact that he is a Liberal Democrat, and many people are against those policies. You, for example, are against those policies. You would be equally critical of anyone who put them forward. But you don't have a record of making false statements and accusing Obama of racism, so I'm not denouncing you in any fashion, sir.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:44 pm
You can find what you need here http://www.johnmccain.com/
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Thu 28 Feb, 2008 03:52 pm
The Elephant in the Room: Obama: A harsh ideologue hidden by a feel-good image
By Rick Santorum

American voters will choose between two candidates this election year.
One inspires hope for a brighter, better tomorrow. His rhetoric makes us feel we are, indeed, one nation indivisible - indivisible by ideology or religion, indivisible by race or creed. It is rhetoric of hope and change and possibility. It's inspiring. This candidate can make you just plain feel good to be American.

The other candidate, by contrast, is one of the Senate's fiercest partisans. This senator reflexively sides with the party's extreme wing. There's no record of working with the other side of the aisle. None. It's basically been my way or the highway, combined with a sanctimoniousness that breeds contempt among those on the other side of any issue.

Which of these two candidates should be our next president? The choice is clear, right?

Wrong, because they're both the same man - Barack Obama.

Granted, the first-term Illinois senator's lofty rhetoric of bipartisanship, unity, hope and change makes everyone feel good. But it's becoming increasingly clear that his grand campaign rhetoric does not match his partisan, ideological record. The nonpartisan National Journal, for example, recently rated Obama the Senate's most liberal member. That's besting some tough competition from orthodox liberals such as Ted Kennedy and Barbara Boxer.

John McCain's campaign and conservative pundits have listed the numerous times in Obama's short Senate career where he sided with the extremes in his party against broadly supported compromises on issues such as immigration, ethics reform, terrorist surveillance and war funding. Fighting on the fringe with a handful of liberals is one thing, but consider his position on an issue that passed both houses of Congress unanimously in 2002.

That bill was the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. During the partial-birth abortion debate, Congress heard testimony about babies that had survived attempted late-term abortions. Nurses testified that these preterm living, breathing babies were being thrown into medical waste bins to die or being "terminated" outside the womb. With the baby now completely separated from the mother, it was impossible to argue that the health or life of the mother was in jeopardy by giving her baby appropriate medical treatment.

The act simply prohibited the killing of a baby born alive. To address the concerns of pro-choice lawmakers, the bill included language that said nothing "shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand or contract any legal status or legal right" of the baby. In other words, the bill wasn't intruding on Roe v. Wade.

Who would oppose a bill that said you couldn't kill a baby who was born? Not Kennedy, Boxer or Hillary Rodham Clinton. Not even the hard-core National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL). Obama, however, is another story. The year after the Born Alive Infants Protection Act became federal law in 2002, identical language was considered in a committee of the Illinois Senate. It was defeated with the committee's chairman, Obama, leading the opposition.

Let's be clear about what Obama did, once in 2003 and twice before that. He effectively voted for infanticide. He voted to allow doctors to deny medically appropriate treatment or, worse yet, actively kill a completely delivered living baby. Infanticide - I wonder if he'll add this to the list of changes in his next victory speech and if the crowd will roar: "Yes, we can."

How could someone possibly justify such a vote? In March 2001, Obama was the sole speaker in opposition to the bill on the floor of the Illinois Senate. He said: "We're saying they are persons entitled to the kinds of protections provided to a child, a 9-month child delivered to term. I mean, it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal-protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child." So according to Obama, "they," babies who survive abortions or any other preterm newborns, should be permitted to be killed because giving legal protection to preterm newborns would have the effect of banning all abortions.

Justifying the killing of newborn babies is deeply troubling, but just as striking is his rigid adherence to doctrinaire liberalism. Apparently, the "audacity of hope" is limited only to those babies born at full term and beyond. Worse, given his support for late-term partial-birth abortions that supporters argued were necessary to end the life of genetically imperfect children, it may be more accurate to say the audacity of hope applies only to those babies born healthy at full term.

Obama's supporters say his rhetoric makes them believe again.

Is this the kind of change and leader you believe in?

**********************************************************

Heh, Santorum sure can make a point.
0 Replies
 
 

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