dyslexia
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 05:34 pm
georgeob wrote:
I havent seen (or perhaps noticed) any derogatory labels hurled at me. have you?
Sorry about that, I've been somewhat under the weather lately.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:01 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
The rather shrill defense of the true believers here tends to add to the skepticism of those who doubt or oppose their candidate and it could even undermine the political wisdom of the Obama camp itself - particularly if it grows into assuming that a crowd of enthused claques will always be there to shout down their critics.


George,

Since you are the expert on the decorum necessary for an advocate of a presidential candidate, I was wondering if you would mind holding a mini-seminar for all of us to learn from.

How would you have gone about responding to the accusations of plagarism as it unfolded here on this thread?

And, how would you hav


e responded to the people in this thread who are using derogatory labels to describe your responses to those plagarism accusations?


How shall I respond to such a question, laced with deliberate irony as it is?

I have not labeled my self as an expert on this or anything else - as you well know. I have however pointed out what I believe are some real excesses of Obama supporters - and I am hardly alone in doing so.

I think Obama handled the Plagarism question fairly well. he didn't shy away from the word and dealt with the issue factually. That was a good deal better than some posters here, and that was the point of my commentary.




This is really getting beyond silly. George expects partisans on a political forum to act more diplomatically than the candidate himself. And what is excessive is George's obsessive denunciation of the enthusiasm of Obama supporters.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:12 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:

..................

This is really getting beyond silly. ..............


No kiddin' ? How's the market for for your own much-sung S+M talents - of course assuming your plastic surgeons got paid and you're not currently still part m/f/n?

How come you got so much time left what between heroin rehab and police reports and (taxpayer-funded) lawyers and blood / urine / DNA tests as are mandated by law that you can worry about po- litics?! Good work there, Roxxxxane Smile
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:17 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
I was asking how, you, as an advocate of a presidential candidate would have responded to accusations of plagarism against that candidate as it unfolded in this thread? What would you have done differently as an advocate of that candidate?

...........


Is everybody here dead drunk, or is it the spelling of "plagiarism" causing you problems? Roxx babe should, btw, attend all Obama rallies in the spirit of the late, great architect Johnson, a homosexual man who assiduously kept attending Nazi rallies in Berlin in the 1930's, and, when asked why he persisted in this habit, replied: "All those great-looking guys dressed in black leather!"

Smile
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:20 pm
Frissons I think HS means.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:22 pm
Rameses 11 had a better style according the Mr Mailer.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:28 pm
Hail, Spendius! At least the late Mr. Mailer did love women, unlike the equally late Mr. Johnson....though the New York times liked neither Ancient Evenings nor Nazi rallies:

Quote:
''Ancient Evenings'' turns out to be neither magnificent nor a masterpiece. What is more, describing the book simply as a failure - a near-miss earning respect for noble ambitions and partial triumphs -will not do. The case is that, despite the brilliance of those first 90 pages, this 700-page work is something considerably less than a heroic venture botched in the execution. It is, speaking bluntly, a disaster

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F03E6D71E39F933A25757C0A965948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:36 pm
Ramses II had 100 wives and concubines, and over 100 children. He lived to be in his 90s which proves sex is good for one's health.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:42 pm
A rag newspaper had a front page article that claims Bill will divorce Hillary if she losses the white house. Funny!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:53 pm
HS-

Thanks-- great review. Missed the point really but great all the same.

I think one might enjoy Ancient Evenings whilst deploring those other things you mention.

Methinks the NYT might be run by ladies of the dignity brigade.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 06:54 pm
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Wisconsin_exits.html

Quote:


Exit poll charts from CBS:

http://election.cbsnews.com/campaign2008/exitPoll.shtml?state=WI&race=P&jurisdiction=0&party=D
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:01 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
I was asking how, you, as an advocate of a presidential candidate would have responded to accusations of plagarism against that candidate as it unfolded in this thread? What would you have done differently as an advocate of that candidate?

Then, as an advocate of that candate, how would you have responded to people labeling you in derogatory terms because of your responses to those accusations about the candidate you support?


Well if the accusations were true, I certainly wouldn't attempt to deny it. Particularly if the matter was relatively trivial and the act involved no more than borrowing, without acknowledgement, some well-chosen phrases from someone else, and not an attempt to otherwise deceive -- as appears to be the case in this instance. I would quickly recognize that any attempt to deny that it was plagiarism, would only discredit me in the eyes of a rational, discriminating observer. Attempting to defend the indefensible is a reliable hallmark of a fanatic.

In short I would have immediately admitted the fault, and noted its limited character.

If I had instead tried to weasel out of the obvious, and was called on it by some clear-headed and discerning person, I would realize that I was creating a problem for myself where none really existed, and very quickly recant. The first law of holes is - when you are in one, stop digging.

If I also detected that my fellow supporters of the unnamed candidate were doing this as well, I would reflect on this for a while and do what I could to make them understand that I and they, by our foolish behavior were making our own campaign look bad in the eyes of the undecided, and possibly helping to create some harmful illusions on the part of our hero himself.

For people in positions of great responsibility and consequence it is generally of critical importance that they stay focused on their own errors, weaknesses, and mistakes, lest they become the chief consumers of their own propaganda. Organizations that excessively reinforce the leader's assumed infallibility do him/her no favors. Political campaigns, for all their hype, waste and folly, are pretty good at exposing weaknesses of all kinds in both the candidate and the campaign. As we have seen, candidates, particularly new faces, can rise - and fall, very quickly. If I was an Obama advisor I would warn him about this and urge him to act quickly create a different atmosphere among his followers, and to anxiously guard against hubris on his own part and on that of his closest advisors.

Frankly, the fact that any of this should be said at all is not a good omen for the campaign which you apparently support so strongly. Someone who tells you an unpleasant truth while you still have time to fix it is not your enemy: one who sees an error and remains supportively silent is not really your friend. I find it very remarkable that you resist all this as much as you do.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:15 pm
CNN has just started posting WI exit poll data:

Men: 66% Obama
32% Clinton

Women: 51% Clinton
48% Obama

Women make up 57% of all Dem. voters polled.

Looks like it should be a squeaker for Obama. Smile
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:19 pm
NBC calls it for Obama.

OBAMARAMA

MORE TO COME


CyClOpTiChOrN!!!!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:23 pm
CNN calls it too.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:26 pm
fishin wrote:
CNN has just started posting WI exit poll data:

Men: 66% Obama
32% Clinton

Women: 51% Clinton
48% Obama

Women make up 57% of all Dem. voters polled.

Looks like it should be a squeaker for Obama. Smile


Ebrown does some quick math (assuming that 100% of people are either a man or a woman).

56% Obama
43% Clinton

Crude estimate... but I will take it.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:29 pm
Well, I just want to say...


OBAMA-DAGNABITALLTOBEDAMN -RAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:30 pm
georgeob1 wrote:

For people in positions of great responsibility and consequence it is generally of critical importance that they stay focused on their own errors, weaknesses, and mistakes, lest they become the chief consumers of their own propaganda. Organizations that excessively reinforce the leader's assumed infallibility do him/her no favors. Political campaigns, for all their hype, waste and folly, are pretty good at exposing weaknesses of all kinds in both the candidate and the campaign. As we have seen, candidates, particularly new faces, can rise - and fall, very quickly. If I was an Obama advisor I would warn him about this and urge him to act quickly create a different atmosphere among his followers, and to anxiously guard against hubris on his own part and on that of his closest advisors.

Frankly, the fact that any of this should be said at all is not a good omen for the campaign which you apparently support so strongly. Someone who tells you an unpleasant truth while you still have time to fix it is not your enemy: one who sees an error and remains supportively silent is not really your friend.


My bold letters.

I agree wholeheartedly with you on this one, georgeob1.
(Been there, done what you said an advisor should, been released, saw the candidate plunge)

As the US campaign rolls, I like Obama more and more, and worry more and more about the possible hazardous effects of "Obamarama-mania" (with all my respects to fellow A2Kers).
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:35 pm
Shhh. Don't get too excited, that's too reminiscent of a church-like experience. Instead, observe.


I say, good show Obama. Now, back to my game of bridge. Ho hum.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Tue 19 Feb, 2008 08:41 pm
Yeah, of course you're right - mustn't overdo the enthusiasm... must maintain some caution in our celebration of our little victories...


of course you're correct in that assessment...





so I won't do it in red anymore, 'kay?


OBAMA-DINGDONGDANG-RAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
 

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