Obama '08?

Quote:

Better to simply respect them as human beings and party loyalists, and allow them to vote their consciences.

The problem is that nobody believes they will vote their consciences. We believe they will vote with their buddies, or whoever they owe a favor to. At least I do.

Maine to Obama.

nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/20060119_charter.pdf

Which part? I see that they "permit" unpledged delegates and say who those are, but I haven't yet found anything about when the unpledged delegates should (or shouldn't) make their preferences known. (Haven't looked terribly carefully so if I missed it, I missed it, but could you point it out? Thanks.)

A few things to consider for those here that are arguing that super-delegates should just vote along the people.

1) The rules are not set up this way

Quote:

Better to simply respect them as human beings and party loyalists, and allow them to vote their consciences.

The problem is that nobody believes they will vote their consciences. We believe they will vote with their buddies, or whoever they owe a favor to. At least I do.

maporsche wrote:

A few things to consider for those here that are arguing that super-delegates should just vote along with the people.

1) The rules are not set up this way, and like FL/MI the candidates all agreed to the rules before running. If you're going to force FL and MI out of the race for breaking the rules, then criticize Clinton for trying to change the rules mid-stream.....well then, it seems a little strange to try to change the rules for SD also mid-stream just becuase it would seem to help your candidate.

2) Should the SD vote along the lines of the delegate count, or should they vote along the lines of the popular vote totals? And why? I mean we're talking about changing the rules here so there'd have to be some justification for picking one over the other.

I read an item by Kevin Drum at Washington Monthly following this line of thought - persuasively enough, I thought.

I mean, my instinctual emotion is that if the superdelegates swing the election to the candidate who did not already have the most pledged delegates elected in primaries/caucuses, that would be a great injustice, a scandal, etc. But he sort of expounded on what you are saying now, and went some way in changing my mind about it:

Quote:

SUPERDELEGATES....

Chris Bowers unleashes a cri de coeur against the possibility that superdelegates will end up determining the winner of the Democratic primary:

If someone is nominated for POTUS from the Democratic Party despite another candidate receiving more poplar support from Democratic primary voters and caucus goers, I will resign as local precinct captain, resign my seat on the Pennsylvania Democratic State Committee, immediately cease all fundraising for all Democrats, refuse to endorse the Democratic "nominee" for any office, and otherwise disengage from the Democratic Party through all available means of doing so. This is not a negotiable position. If the Democratic Party does not nominate the candidate for POTUS that the majority (or plurality) of its participants in primaries and caucuses want it to nominate, then I will quit the Democratic Party.

I don't quite get this. The very existence of superdelegates assumes that they'll vote their own consciences, not merely parrot the results of the primaries. After all, why even have them if that's all they do?

More importantly, though, who decides what the popular will is anyway? Is it number of pledged delegates from the state contests? Total popular vote? Total number of states won? What about uncommitted delegates from primary states? Or caucus states, in which there's no popular vote to consult and delegates are selected in a decidedly nondemocratic fashion to begin with? And what about all the independent and crossover voters? Personally, I'd just as soon they didn't have a say in selecting the nominee of my party at all, but the rules say otherwise. If I'm a superdelegate, do I count their votes, or do I pore over exit polls to try to tease out how Democratic Party voters voted? And how do I take into account the obviously disproportionate influence of Iowa and New Hampshire, two tiny states that have far more power than any truly democratic process would ever give them?

I'm not very excited at the idea of superdelegates deciding the nomination either, but the only way that will happen is if the primaries end up nearly tied in the first place. Then factor in the number of ways in which the primary/caucus process is nondemocratic from the get go, and it hardly seems practical to insist that superdelegates should all somehow divine a single "democratic" result from a very close race. I'm just not sure how you can do it. Better to simply respect them as human beings and party loyalists, and allow them to vote their consciences.

Quote:

Better to simply respect them as human beings and party loyalists, and allow them to vote their consciences.

The problem is that nobody believes they will vote their consciences. We believe they will vote with their buddies, or whoever they owe a favor to. At least I do.

Quote:

Better to simply respect them as human beings and party loyalists, and allow them to vote their consciences.

The problem is that nobody believes they will vote their consciences. We believe they will vote with their buddies, or whoever they owe a favor to. At least I do.

http://election.cbsnews.com/campaign2008/d_delegateScorecard.shtml

According to CBS news,

Obama has won enough delegates and garnered significantly more super-delegates, enough to make the count, including supers:

Obama 1,134
Clinton 1,131

Can't wait till Tuesday!

OBAMARAMA

Cycloptichorn

Just heard that Hillary has replaced her campaign manager...

http://thepage.time.com/solis-doyles-outgoing-message-to-staff/

The adviser most damaged by Iowa may be the one closest to the candidate: Hillary's longtime scheduler and alter ego, Solis Doyle. Among the most devout members of Hillaryland, Solis Doyle is cheered by supporters as an "unconventional" choice for campaign manager. Detractors are less kind, noting that even some of Hillary's most trusted advisers have long questioned Solis Doyle's readiness for the job. Clinton money man Terry McAuliffe is said to have expressed reservations early on, including in a conversation with the Clintons during the couple's January 2006 trip to the Dominican Republic, according to someone there with the group. (McAuliffe denies this.) Similarly, several weeks before the campaign's official launch, a handful of the most senior Hillarylanders met with the senator to express eleventh-hour doubts about Solis Doyle, says someone Hillary spoke with after the meeting.

No one denies that Solis Doyle's authority stems less from her expertise or political savvy (though defenders insist she has an abundance of both) than from her bond with Hillary. The result, say critics, is a toxic blend of insecurity (about her abilities) and arrogance (about her proximity to the boss). As they tell it, an overwhelmed Solis Doyle has become increasingly temperamental--playing favorites and abusing her relationship with Hillary to control information flow and enhance her own power. "It's become 'The Patti Show,'" snipes a former member of the Clinton White House who remains close to both Clintons. Solis Doyle is said to allow unaddressed issues to pile up, failing to do things like return calls to surrogates in need of direction or contributors in need of stroking. "People are constantly complaining to the senator and other members of the campaign family that their calls aren't being returned," notes one observer who often hears from such people. At the same time, over the course of her management career, Solis Doyle has developed a reputation for mucking around in the weeds, insisting upon signing off on even low-level decisions, such as where to hold a minor event and whether bagels or donuts should be served. (That's not a hypothetical.) She is brutal to staffers who try to circumvent her with a request, and she is not shy about reminding others of her position: When dispatched to Iowa headquarters in the final month, Solis Doyle demanded that in preparation for her arrival walls be erected around the section of the giant bullpen where she would be working.

Both candidates were here Saturday

Though Maine's delegate count is small, Clinton and Obama, along with surrogates, came to the state Saturday as their campaigns drew tighter after Super Tuesday.

Thousands of people packed the Bangor Auditorium to hear Obama on Saturday and hundreds more who weren't allowed inside greeted him as he arrived. People also were stopped at the door as Clinton held a town hall-style gathering nearby at the University of Maine at Orono. She later stopped in Lewiston.

Clinton's daughter, Chelsea, and husband, Bill, also visited, while Obama supporter Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts campaigned in two cities in the days before the vote.

Both campaigns hit Maine heavily with radio and TV advertising, and voters' homes were being called with pre-taped messages in support of both candidates. On Sunday, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, Rep. Patrick Kennedy of Rhode Island and Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate, were scheduled to visit Maine caucuses on Obama's behalf.

On Clinton's side, Maine Gov. John Baldacci, Massachusetts Rep. Jim McGovern and New York Rep. Gregory Meeks were to campaign.

[..] Despite the weather, turnout was "incredible," party executive director Arden Manning said. [..]

Organizers had expected heavy participation at the caucuses, but up to 8 inches of snow and Arctic cold were expected when many of the gatherings were scheduled. Even so, Democrats started Sunday with more than 4,000 absentee ballots in hand.

Manning said the weather wouldn't hurt turnout. In Bangor, the caucus started late because so many people showed up that they were lined up outside the door, he said.

Lines three blocks long

In Portland, waterlogged Democrats carrying "Obama" and "Hillary" signs waited to get into the citywide caucus at Portland High School in separate lines that snaked nearly three city blocks in opposite directions. [..]

4:30 am in Budapest, by the way.