blueflame1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:26 am
link
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:31 am
October 29th?

Chris Crain (gay blogger) on the same:

Quote:
January 02, 2008
Obama is best for gay rights

[...]

Except on gay marriage, Obama has hit all the right notes on the gay rights issues of the day, and he has refused to pander. He has chastised conservative black pastors and white evangelicals alike for opposing gay rights and aggressive HIV prevention. He even refused the demand from gay activists that he reject the support of Grammy-winning gospel singer Donnie McClurkin because he claims to be "ex-gay."

Obama is the only candidate who talks regularly about gay rights, including civil unions, in front of national audiences, and he is the candidate best suited to reach out to independents and Republicans in the general election and in fulfilling the promises he has made as a candidate.

If you can vote in the Democratic primary where you live, there is no better candidate on gay rights than Barack Obama.


I have a bunch of other stuff on how Obama has garnered a great deal of support in the gay community and why, if anyone's interested.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:40 am
sozobe, I voted for Obama in the meaningless Florida primary. But am disturbed by this story. It's why I hate politics so much. I have no doubt that Obama supports gay rights. But the nature of playing politics keeps candidates walking on eggs and keeps supposed gay supporters from going all the way. Al Gore just came out for gay marriage and I think he always believed in that right but playing politics kept him from going all the way until now. I think other candidates are in the same position.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:47 am
Yeah, I'd love it if Obama would be in favor of gay marriage. It's one of the few things I outright disagree with. Not sure if it's politically viable, though, and at least he is for full repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (Hillary only goes halfway). For this and other reasons, he's been getting a lot of endorsements from the gay community -- as in, maybe not the perfect candidate, but the best one available.

But I know what you mean.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:55 am
sozobe, "I have a bunch of other stuff on how Obama has garnered a great deal of support in the gay community and why, if anyone's interested." Yes I'm interested. Love to hear what people are saying.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 09:59 am
Lola wrote:

Read it as you will, nimh. As you may recall I also apologized for my tone and at this point I'm interested in what the real story is. But never mind, I give up with you. I'm tired of answering questions when they are simply the same ones over and over, not matter what I say. As I said, forget it. You're about the rudest person on this thread and that's saying something. No matter what I say, you come back with a snotty little jab. It's very hard to think and study with your yammering all the time. So just ignore me and I'll ignore you and we'll be fine.


It's true Nimh is a bit of a nudge, and, like Walter, he is a relentless corrector of details (must be a northern European thing). However, he takes as well as he gives, doesn't hold grudges, and is generally light-hearted about it all. Moreover, like you Lola, he is interested and interesting. Give him a break. :wink:

I can understand your passionate support for Hillary and a conviction that the moment is well-earned, deserved and right for her --- and, as well that a too hard fought Democrat contest could jeapordize their collective prospects in November. Like you, I think the passion for Obama is a bit overwrought. However, that is democratic politics. The Republican race has demonstrated its surprises as well.

In time you will learn to like President McCain and Vice president Romney as well. Razz
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 10:04 am
Lola wrote:
You're about the rudest person on this thread and that's saying something. No matter what I say, you come back with a snotty little jab. It's very hard to think and study with your yammering all the time.

Well, here we are again.

Once again it's me being, yes, anal in persistently asking questions that you find annoying -- because I am anal, it's my biggest flaw, and I know it can be bloody annoying. But it's all just arguments, arguments and facts and quotes. I never even thought of calling you any names.

And then there's you resorting to outright personal insults and colourful ridicule in response.

Again.

And that somehow proves that I am the rudest in the thread. F*ck that. You should take a look in the mirror sometime. Manipulative is what it is.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 10:04 am
Why do homosexuals hate Donnie McClurkin for telling his own life's story?

He was a homosexual . Now he's not.

Both were his choice.

I thought you would support choice, but apparently not.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 10:10 am
blueflame1 wrote:
sozobe, "I have a bunch of other stuff on how Obama has garnered a great deal of support in the gay community and why, if anyone's interested." Yes I'm interested. Love to hear what people are saying.


Oh, OK, cool! (He asked!)

Crain again:

Quote:
While gay voters in places like New York and San Francisco may feel the luxury of looking past gay issues in the Democratic primary, those issues hit much closer to home in those states that lack any state or local anti-discrimination laws and where anti-gay bias is a more common occurrence.

I certainly don't feel that luxury. I know what life is like for gays who live in my native South, and I've seen firsthand how the issue can rip apart families and friendships. And laws like the Defense of Marriage Act have a direct impact on my life, since my partner and I cannot live together in the U.S. because of it. It makes a real difference to me that Barack Obama favors full repeal of DOMA and Hillary only half, and because she has consistently tried to defend the nefarious law signed by her husband in 1996.


A gay L.A. councilman endorsed Obama and provided this list:

Quote:
Rosendahl said he was impressed with Obama's track record on issues of importance to the LGBT community. He specifically noted the following:

·Obama supports the repeal of the entire federal Defense of Marriage Act, and has done so ever since he was a candidate for U.S. Senate in 2004.

·Obama has taken stronger positions on dismantling "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," and on fully inclusive workplace protections, than any candidate in the presidential race.

·Obama is a strong supporter of every major piece of LGBT legislation in Congress today.

·Obama supports fair tax treatment for gay and lesbian couples.

·Obama supports equal immigration rights for gay and lesbian couples.

·Obama supports domestic partner benefits for federal workers.

·Obama, while in the Illinois Senate, sponsored a fully inclusive anti-discrimination law that included both sexual orientation and gender identity.

·Obama sponsored the Microbicide Development Act to fund research critical to combating HIV/AIDS in the United States and around the world.

·Obama spoke out on World AIDS Day to an audience of evangelical leaders at Saddleback Church, publicly disagreeing with the leaders in attendance who opposed condom distribution.

·Obama, in Illinois, worked to enact a law that authorizes licensed pharmacists to provide clean needles in small, controlled numbers, a reform that is credited with achieving dramatic declines in the spread of HIV among intravenous drug users.

·Obama, in the U.S. Senate, supported efforts to lift the ban on federal funding for regulated needle exchange programs that are proven to work in the fight against HIV/AIDS.

·Obama has continued to raise the issue of LGBT civil rights in forums and town halls nationwide. During a high-profile speech on Martin Luther King Jr. Day at King's Ebenezer Baptist Church, he challenged his audience to support gay and lesbian rights with the same fervor they brought to their own struggle for civil rights.

"The more I have listened to Barack Obama," Rosendahl said, "the more convinced I have become that his commitment to our civil rights is deep and heartfelt. I am impressed that he continually raises the issue of gay civil rights, even in front of audiences hostile to our issues. I look forward to a Democratic administration that takes up our cause, instead of taking us for granted.

"I strongly urge my fellow LGBT voters in California and across the country to vote for Barack Obama for President."


Andrew Sullivan -- who is gay -- has spent a whole lot of time on his blog, the Daily Dish, about how he felt betrayed by the Clintons and how impressed he is with Obama. He's a major Obama supporter. Here's a sample:

Quote:
Obama and The Gays

If you're a Democrat, it isn't really a contest. We all know the record of the Clintons on gay equality. In the words of Melissa Etheridge, they "threw us under the bus" when it was politically expedient for them (after they'd bled the gay community financially dry). Here are a few YouTubes of Obama's public, proud and often risky defenses of gay and lesbian equality - in front of non-gay audiences and not prompted by questions. The Ebenezer sermon, when he called on black congregants in MLK's church not to condemn or ostracize their "gay brothers and sisters" (after the 9 minute mark). The AU speech (around the 9 minute mark again). His stump speech, "Countdown To Change." Obama was the only Democratic candidate to mention gay and lesbian equality in his announcement address. In South Carolina, he spoke of the importance of gay outreach to religious voters.

I've had two core principles in my own work in defense of gay equality: supporting the simple equality of gays and straights under the law; opposing the toxins of identity politics and a balkanized gay identity. The way Obama transcends his own multiple identities, the way he both embraces his difference and yet seeks a common political discourse: this is the model that makes the most sense to me. Neither denying difference nor being defined by it is a path all minorities would be better off pursuing. And Obama's call for self-empowerment rather than self-defeating victimology is particularly apposite for gays and lesbians.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 10:29 am
sozobe, thanks. Very good.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:02 am
nimh wrote:
Lola wrote:
You're about the rudest person on this thread and that's saying something. No matter what I say, you come back with a snotty little jab. It's very hard to think and study with your yammering all the time.

Well, here we are again.

Once again it's me being, yes, anal in persistently asking questions that you find annoying -- because I am anal, it's my biggest flaw, and I know it can be bloody annoying. But it's all just arguments, arguments and facts and quotes. I never even thought of calling you any names.

And then there's you resorting to outright personal insults and colourful ridicule in response.

Again.

And that somehow proves that I am the rudest in the thread. F*ck that. You should take a look in the mirror sometime. Manipulative is what it is.


That's why I think it best if we just avoid each other on this thread. I'm not going to escalate things by responding to your defensive remarks one at a time. I've always considered you to be a friend. We're all very tense and it's only going to get worse, how worse I don't know. My patience is very short with cute jabs. It's not your questions. My problem with your that I don't like the way you talk to me. Perhaps it's because I've always thought of you as a friend, I don't know. In any case I think we should all be more polite and careful in our communications. I'm concerned about this escalating split in the party. I've written a lot of stinky little jabs myself lately and then I've deleted them. I've apologized for my previous nasty remarks and I haven't made a big deal out of the absence of any in response. I'm trying and if you'll try too then we'll get along. But if not, I'm just not going to participate with you or anyone else that can't control themselves. This isn't funny to me. I don't want a president McCain.

Thanks for your fatherly advice george. It was helpful.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:07 am
Lola wrote:
I don't want a president McCain.


It won't be so bad Lola.

A moderate republican and a democratic congress.
A fiscal conservative and a social moderate.

McCain in 2008!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:12 am
(Does the fact that Obama is doing significantly better than Hillary in head-to-head match-ups against McCain mean anything?)

My pleasure, blueflame! Thanks for asking.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:18 am
Most of us don't want a President McCain - even George won't, right ? Wink
However, lots of us don't want a Hillary either.

Understandably, the people who most identify with Hillary are the sames
who represent the same characteristics, since a vast majority of her
supporters are women of her age bracket.

Obama supporters are much younger and have a far greater (and longer) input in their own future. Naturally, what is most important to younger
people, Obama promises to accomplish for them. Aside from his political
motivation, he's a breath of fresh air that is so much needed after all
the Bushes and Clintons who dominated the White House the past 20 years.

Do I want to wait out my turn, until my generation is allowed to have a
younger president, regardless of her/his minority status? Hell no!
Not as long as my vote is counting!
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:24 am
sozobe wrote:
Yeah, I'd love it if Obama would be in favor of gay marriage. It's one of the few things I outright disagree with. Not sure if it's politically viable, though, and at least he is for full repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (Hillary only goes halfway). For this and other reasons, he's been getting a lot of endorsements from the gay community -- as in, maybe not the perfect candidate, but the best one available.

But I know what you mean.


I'd love it too, but if we want to make sure we don't win this election with the Republicans, we can start a national debate and war over homosexuality. I feel impatient myself, but I've come to see that the resistance to gay marriage is deeply rooted in the character structure of those who resist so violently. It's volatile because it's so threatening to them. They'll go blind with passion with the smallest provocation. I'm also a pro-choice person and wish we could just force it on those who can't see my point of view. But the same holds true for that issue. I think it's wiser to lay low and get elected. I'm sure the Republicans are planning to stir this up in an effort to win. There's always the possibility that stirring up the Christian Right enough to nudge them into splitting of would work. On the other hand, it may serve to consolidate their support again and heal their wounds. I'm sure both Obama and Clinton know what they're doing on this. They'll handle it, unless those of us who feel so strongly begin to push.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:29 am
maporsche wrote:
Lola wrote:
I don't want a president McCain.


It won't be so bad Lola.

A moderate republican and a democratic congress.
A fiscal conservative and a social moderate.

McCain in 2008!


Well it may come to that if we keep fighting with such passion. But both sides feel strongly about it. I personally think the strong feelings have to do with deep seated identity issues on both sides so we may not be able to avoid it.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:42 am
To mysteryman......your post disappeared. But here's my response to you:

I wasn't going to say that you don't matter. I welcome your participation if you're not trying to instigate a riot. Here's my posting just two above yours:

Yes, and this is exactly what I was talking about. It's not that Obama didn't have a right to run, it's that I think he made more trouble for all of us, himself included by running in this election. One minority candidate at a time would have been a challenge. There are many situations in life in which we have a right to do something we want to do, but sometimes if we assert that right and act on it, it creates more trouble than it's worth. I'm afraid we've already lost this general election and it's too bad because we were so set up to win it. I'm so disappointed.

I think Obama does have a right. I just think it wasn't wise to exercise it now.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 11:48 am
Quote:
Yes, and this is exactly what I was talking about. It's not that Obama didn't have a right to run, it's that I think he made more trouble for all of us, himself included by running in this election. One minority candidate at a time would have been a challenge. There are many situations in life in which we have a right to do something we want to do, but sometimes if we assert that right and act on it, it creates more trouble than it's worth. I'm afraid we've already lost this general election and it's too bad because we were so set up to win it. I'm so disappointed.

I think Obama does have a right. I just think it wasn't wise to exercise it now.


Why not? Just because you think Hillary is a better candidate in your view,
doesn't diminish the fact that Obama's candidacy is chosen at the right
time. Obama has not attenuated the Democratic party or its voters, on
the contrary I'd say. This primary brings out more young people than ever before, it interests more young people in politics, and it brings a positive
outlook towards the next election, and I contribute this to the Obama camp, not the Clintons. Playing the minority ticket here, is not of importance.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 12:13 pm
I have very mixed feelings about the choices in the coming election. I oppose much of the cant and the fixed positions of both political parties on issues ranging from special provision for politically organized and favored minorities to our too unquestioning support of Israel. Perhaps that makes me favor politicans who are more likely to compromise & find the middle ground.

As I have indicated before, I have strong suspicions that Obama's wisdom, leadership in adversity, and political abilities don't or won't match his considerable rhetorical skills. The excitement he stimulates among the young does nothing to dilute that, not unreasonable, concern, indeed it adds to it.

Hillary is a more known and predictable quantity, however the Clinton sense of entitlement, the notion that the inheritance is or ought to be theirs alone is equally offensive. Here too the similar reactions of many Clinton supporters only add to my concerns.

I am left with McCain and the hope that in his cranky stubbornness he will moderate the excesses of both the right and the left.

It is remarkable that after all that has happened, the Republicans have a good chance at all.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 9 Feb, 2008 12:21 pm
This went well with blueflame, I'll try it again... :-)

georgeob1 wrote:
As I have indicated before, I have strong suspicions that Obama's wisdom, leadership in adversity, and political abilities don't or won't match his considerable rhetorical skills.


If you're interested, I can provide further information on those subjects. (There is much to be gleaned from his 8 years in the Illinois State Senate and his time in the U.S. Senate so far.)
0 Replies
 
 

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