sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:03 am
I agree, FreeDuck.

A question for anyone who watched the SC victory speech... I put up two windows, the video of the speech and the transcript, and followed along pretty well once he got started. At the beginning, though, he has a bunch of thank-you's that aren't in the transcript. "Thank you South Carolina," I got, but there were a few more, and one seems to end in "Obama" and I'm wondering what that one is. ("Thank you for voting for Obama?" No. "Thank, you team Obama?" Something.)

Anyone know?

Thanks!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:29 am
sozobe wrote:
A question for anyone who watched the SC victory speech... I put up two windows, the video of the speech and the transcript, and followed along pretty well once he got started. At the beginning, though, he has a bunch of thank-you's that aren't in the transcript. "Thank you South Carolina," I got, but there were a few more, and one seems to end in "Obama" and I'm wondering what that one is. ("Thank you for voting for Obama?" No. "Thank, you team Obama?" Something.)

Anyone know?

Thanks!

He thanked his wife, "Michelle Obama", who was "like a rock", is what I think he said; and then he thanked both his children, also mentioning them by name. Do you think that was it?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:30 am
That's probably it, yes! Thanks.

It's the first time I remember seeing HIM say his last name, and I liked how he said it. More melodic and African than most pronunciations I see.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:31 am
snood wrote:
Quote:
I wish a guy like Edwards could become President in America... but thats just not feasible, I guess. Obama's certainly the next best.


that lil' thing about who's "certainly" second best, between Obama and Edwards?



strictly a matter of opinion.

Of course it is. I'm just giving mine, just like you've given yours.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:33 am
sozobe wrote:
I agree, FreeDuck.

A question for anyone who watched the SC victory speech... I put up two windows, the video of the speech and the transcript, and followed along pretty well once he got started. At the beginning, though, he has a bunch of thank-you's that aren't in the transcript. "Thank you South Carolina," I got, but there were a few more, and one seems to end in "Obama" and I'm wondering what that one is. ("Thank you for voting for Obama?" No. "Thank, you team Obama?" Something.)

Anyone know?

Thanks!


E-mail from Barack (we are on a first name basis)

Quote:
Roxanne

We've just won a big victory in South Carolina.

After four great contests in every corner of this country, and another record turnout today, we have the most votes, the most delegates, and the most diverse coalition of Americans we've seen in a long, long time.

You'll have a chance to make your voice heard next Tuesday, February 5th -- and I am counting on you.

I'll be heading down shortly to thank our supporters in South Carolina.

If you're reading this tonight, I hope you'll tune in at home so I can thank you, too.

Barack


He thanked all his supporters and thanked Roxxxanne in San Francisco.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:40 am
Once again, let's consider the famous Kristol memo...

Quote:
December 2, 1993 - Leading conservative operative William Kristol privately circulates a strategy document to Republicans in Congress. Kristol writes that congressional Republicans should work to "kill" -- not amend -- the Clinton plan because it presents a real danger to the Republican future: Its passage will give the Democrats a lock on the crucial middle-class vote and revive the reputation of the party. Nearly a full year before Republicans will unite behind the "Contract With America," Kristol has provided the rationale and the steel for them to achieve their aims of winning control of Congress and becoming America's majority party. Killing health care will serve both ends.
link

The "clinton baggage" which Kristol, in his abiding concern for american citizens, wishes us to be without is, as Krugman notes, a product of Kristol and company.

One of my abiding bamboozlements relates to wondering how many of the folks on this thread have actually read Toobin's or Conason's or Brock's books on this history? It can't be very many of you.

But the reality, however injust and ahistorical it might be, is that the meme of "the clintons are amoral, self-obsessed, dirty-fighters who'll do anything to win" may have won the day even among many liberals (and even if it is far more correctly understood as an exact projection of the people who set about the task of deligitimizing Clinton and his administration from the outset of his administration and running right through today).

Damned unfortunate if that's the case because it is a propagandist revision of what is real but it ought not to surprise a whole lot because these people are good at this. Here's a line from Kristol's recent column at Weekly Standard where he's rooting for a surge in Bush's popularity in this last year...
Quote:
It is important to Republican prospects in 2008, and to conservative prospects beyond, how the Bush administration is judged.
link To write this more honestly, Kristol's point is that any lingering consensus that the Bush administration represents a dismal failure, with dishonesty, with war-mongering, with increasing disparity between rich and poor, with a lack of compassion for real people, with its assaults on privacy and civil rights, with its broad and pervasive taint of corruption, with its moves towards evisceration of the constitution and towards totalitarian-style power through all the manifestations of its unitary executive theory...will work serious damage on the 'republican brand'. It is precisely this marketing/propaganda approach to republican political discourse which tells us why they strive to protect the 'Reagan legacy" so seriously and why they continue to lay on with trowels all of the "Clinton baggage" narrative.

But let's say for the sake of argument that the damage is done. Let's say that this campaign has been so successful that only an Obama candidacy might lead to dem victory of the WH (not certain, but let's assume it).

Then it really better be the case that once Obama has achieved the candidacy, then through the general campaign, and then through the entire length of his presidency, that he had better hire up all of the people in the Clinton universe who fully appreciate what will be coming Obama's way and who will be absolutely willing to confront the fact that this is not going to be pattycake.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:49 am
"...the Bush administration represents a dismal failure, with dishonesty, with war-mongering, with increasing disparity between rich and poor, with a lack of compassion for real people, with its assaults on privacy and civil rights, with its broad and pervasive taint of corruption, with its moves towards evisceration of the constitution and towards totalitarian-style power through all the manifestations of its unitary executive theory...."

He is kind to his dog.

Well of course, he understands his dog. Mostly.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:49 am
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
I wish a guy like Edwards could become President in America... but thats just not feasible, I guess. Obama's certainly the next best.


Did you read this Krauthammer article, Nimh, and what do you think about it?

I take everything by Krauthammer with a grain of salt, but yeah of course, there's no doubt that Edwards today is not the same politician as the John Edwards of 2002.

At the time, he was a junior Senator from a deeply conservative state, making his first steps in politics. He acted accordingly - and would have been barraged by criticism by his NC constituents if he had talked like he does now.

But he's been a consistent champion of the cause of fighting poverty and inequality, and calling attention to those who have the least voice in politics, for five years now. And just by stubbornly keeping on bringing these things into the debate, he's doing good.

Does that mean he's being hypocritical when he says he's "fought for the poor for all of his life" or the equivalents of such? Yeah, a bit I guess. He's certainly not been anywhere as consistent as he claims to be. But in that he's no different than any of the current Republican frontrunners. Or than any of the Dems in 04 was.

Take Krauthammer's list of things that Edwards changed positions on - you really think the list for Romney wouldnt be twice as deep and wide? Even for McCain you could easily run down a list of flip-flops as impressive as that.

Does that make Edwards just a regular pol - more so than Obama, say? Yeah, probably. In his defense you could argue that at the time, he did the best that was feasible for a junior senator from a conservative state at the height of Bush's authority. But who can look into his heart? Perhaps he really believed in his more conservative positions back then, and he's done an actual turnabout in all his beliefs, and that would make him a hypocrite. Perhaps he's always done and said what he thought he could within the mandate he had, and now that he's a freewheeling presidential candidate he can say a lot more than when he was representing the people of North Carolina.

Either way, as I've said before, even IF he were some outright scumbag, which I really dont believe - wait - here it is:

Quote:
See, I see the role that John Edwards plays in consistently and passionately pulling the subjects of poverty, disadvantage, the concerns of struggling middle class people, the millions without health insurance, as an important one. There is noone else who emphasises these problems as consistently as he does, no other politician in the limelight who so often talks of these things. Even IF Edwards personally were a scumbag, that would still be a laudable and significant role.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:49 am
Quote:
But the reality, however injust and ahistorical it might be, is that the meme of "the clintons are amoral, self-obsessed, dirty-fighters who'll do anything to win" may have won the day even among many liberals (and even if it is far more correctly understood as an exact projection of the people who set about the task of deligitimizing Clinton and his administration from the outset of his administration and running right through today).


You're serious?

You actually -- really-truly look in my eyes actually -- think that the Clintons have done nothing to garner the kind of criticism they've been getting from good liberals like me? That if I criticize things like Hillary's late-breaking concern for the good people of Michigan and Florida, I'm just a puppet jerking around on Kristol's strings?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:57 am
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=110573
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 08:57 am
Toni Morrison is endorsing Obama!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/author-toni-mor.html

Not huge, but an interesting one.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 09:35 am
Here's Toni Morrison's letter:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/28/614795.aspx
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 09:38 am
Talking of endorsements.. here's an interesting one.. Hillary gets endorsed by Alan Dershowitz...

    ''Change" alone cannot be a basis for deciding which candidate to support. Every candidate--from Dennis Kucinich to Mike Huckabee--favors change. What matters is the direction of the change, who is in charge of bringing it about--and who is supporting the candidate. When I cast my vote, I look not only at the candidate but at who is supporting him or her. Elections empower not only the winning candidate but the constituencies that helped to elect that person. I worry about the constituencies that are supporting some of the candidates. For this reason, I favor the nomination of a centrist Democrat, one who is capable of attracting independents, moderates, and the growing number of anti-Bush Republicans. Hillary Clinton understands this and has not pandered to the extreme left of her party. She understands that this small but vocal faction helps to buoy candidates but then often helps to sink them in the general election. I support Clinton because she is the most knowledgeable, experienced, mature, and deep-thinking of the major candidates. I would trust her to make the wisest decision in the event of a major crisis. Clinton is a progressive on social issues, a realist on foreign policy, a pragmatist on the economy--in other words, a centrist Democrat. I hope she becomes our next president.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 09:41 am
Huh.

Quote:
For this reason, I favor the nomination of a centrist Democrat, one who is capable of attracting independents, moderates, and the growing number of anti-Bush Republicans.


Uh... isn't that Obama?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 09:42 am
nimh wrote:
Talking of endorsements.. here's an interesting one.. Hillary gets endorsed by Alan Dershowitz...

    ''Change" alone cannot be a basis for deciding which candidate to support. Every candidate--from Dennis Kucinich to Mike Huckabee--favors change. What matters is the direction of the change, who is in charge of bringing it about--and who is supporting the candidate. When I cast my vote, I look not only at the candidate but at who is supporting him or her. Elections empower not only the winning candidate but the constituencies that helped to elect that person. I worry about the constituencies that are supporting some of the candidates. For this reason, I favor the nomination of a centrist Democrat, one who is capable of attracting independents, moderates, and the growing number of anti-Bush Republicans. Hillary Clinton understands this and has not pandered to the extreme left of her party. She understands that this small but vocal faction helps to buoy candidates but then often helps to sink them in the general election. I support Clinton because she is the most knowledgeable, experienced, mature, and deep-thinking of the major candidates. I would trust her to make the wisest decision in the event of a major crisis. Clinton is a progressive on social issues, a realist on foreign policy, a pragmatist on the economy--in other words, a centrist Democrat. I hope she becomes our next president.


I look at who is supporting a candidate as well - and Alan Dershowitz's support isn't a bonus in the minds of most Liberals, given his penchant for supporting torture and apologizing for every bad thing Israel has ever done.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:00 am
sozobe wrote:
Quote:
But the reality, however injust and ahistorical it might be, is that the meme of "the clintons are amoral, self-obsessed, dirty-fighters who'll do anything to win" may have won the day even among many liberals (and even if it is far more correctly understood as an exact projection of the people who set about the task of deligitimizing Clinton and his administration from the outset of his administration and running right through today).


You're serious?

You actually -- really-truly look in my eyes actually -- think that the Clintons have done nothing to garner the kind of criticism they've been getting from good liberals like me? That if I criticize things like Hillary's late-breaking concern for the good people of Michigan and Florida, I'm just a puppet jerking around on Kristol's strings?


This is getting rather funny, in a sad sort of way.

If I'm reading all of you correctly, many of you are criticizing Bill for the exact ame thing the right was criticizing him for when he was president.
Except when the right said anything, you defended him.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:10 am
MM wrote:
Except when the right said anything, you defended him.
do you honestly think this is true? If so, you are indeed a fuc*king idiot.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:13 am
An unlikely echo

Carrie Budoff Brown noticed a rather off-message echo in Obama's stump speech last week, and writes that Obama added to his stump speech in South Carolina several lines that echoed a speech attributed to Malcolm X.

"They're trying to bamboozle you," Obama said for the first time Wednesday in Sumter, S.C., to a predominantly African American crowd while refuting e-mails falsely identifying him as a Muslim. "Don't let people turn you around because they're just making stuff up. That's what they do. They try to bamboozle you, hoodwink you."

Obama repeated those lines frequently as he traveled around the state.

The lines echo the best-known version of the Malcolm X speech, which comes from Spike Lee's biopic. It's a stinging address full of blunt racial division, which warns blacks about being "hoodwinked" and "bamboozled" by "the white man."

"You've been had. You've been took. You've been hoodwinked. Bamboozled. Led astray. Run amok," Malcolm says in the speech.

Robert Gibbs, Obama's communications director, said he did not know whether Obama was aware that he was echoing Malcolm X.

Spike Lee drew on the Malcolm X speech again in 2000 with his film "Bamboozled," a satire about the race and the media.
link Great
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:24 am
dyslexia wrote:
MM wrote:
Except when the right said anything, you defended him.
do you honestly think this is true? If so, you are indeed a fuc*king idiot.
Then I'm a fu*king idiot too, because MM is making a very valid point. The Blatham-blinders aren't a recent development. He's been wearing them for a decade and a half. The division of lefties around here didn't happen until the less partisan lefties took their blinders off. 3 months ago; no one on this site would think of accusing Nimh, let alone Soz, of drinking the Kool-Aid. Blatham wouldn't have accused me, let alone Nimh, of being a Dic. The A2K lefty club is as splintered as the Republican Party over the Clinton tacticsÂ… and you think noticing that makes MM an idiot. Sorry cowboy; that's BS.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Mon 28 Jan, 2008 10:29 am
"Except when the right said anything, you defended him." That's a generality. Many people defended Clinton when they felt he had it coming and criticized him when they felt he had that coming.
0 Replies
 
 

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