Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:08 am
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Strom_Thurmond.jpg/100px-Strom_Thurmond.jpg
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:09 am
snood wrote:
But more people voted for Obama than for all the GOP frontrunners, in their primary, combined.

They can be as conservative as they want, but they've still got to be able to get them out to vote.

My sentiments, exactly! :wink:
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:09 am
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
So, this ugly race is over and it looks like all the racial talk was overblown and overplayed. The voters, once again, made their voices heard and the politicians will have to heed them.

Why post this meaningless dribble? I don't want the election to be about identity politics any more than the next guy, but how does SC demonstrate that it isn't? The black guy got 24% of the white vote and 80% of the black vote... and we're supposed to use that as proof that race isn't where it's at? Again, I'm not suggesting it is outside of SC, but this Digby fool seems to think he's proven something. 55% for a black man is encouraging, and something we can all be proud of... but I wonder if Digby realizes what percentage of these voters were black.

Echo that!

For sure, it's definitely a hopeful sign that the white under 30's who voted in the Democratic primary were massively prepared to vote for Obama. But this youngest generation still makes up only a small segment of the overall vote. And look at the totals. If Obama gets 80% of the black vote and 25% of the white vote in a state, it's ludicrous to suggest that this proves that race isnt all that important and the media should just back off it already.

I mean, that's still a huge chasm. And it will likely be replicated in other states as racially divided as SC, so it's a sincere concern, and a real and important element in the outcome.

Even Digby's talk of "a bi-racial majority" is just hyperbolic. I mean, Obama got 55% of the vote, so that's a majority -- but of his voters, 81% was black and 19% was white. Is that a bi-racial majority? Let's keep it real here.


Race and gender are, as a simple matter of logical necessity, undeniable elements in this contest. Denying the signicance of either is simply to be blind. Denying that they are both inherently divisive is equally blind.

Fair enough, in one sense, to call digby's 'bi racial majority' a positive or hopeful spin on SC. But when you add in the prior primaries and caucuses, then the statement isn't so easy to dismiss.

As regards the youth vote, Obama's appeal is noteable. But in a more general overview, it reflects a broad and substantial shift in young people's voting and policy preferences and party membership over to the left, as Krugman and others have detailed. What consequence this will have for this election, we'll see, but over the longer term, this is a very important shift and it makes Obama's present appeal to them supportive of the shift.

But I take digby's post to be referring most acutely to the media appetite for ANY aspect of contention, and their tendency to promote and exaggerate in order to create a narrative of constant conflict. It is their bread and butter for viewer capture. Gender and race and the bordering-on-evil Clintons are the flavors of the day.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:11 am
blatham wrote:
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
blatham wrote:
Quote:
So, this ugly race is over and it looks like all the racial talk was overblown and overplayed. The voters, once again, made their voices heard and the politicians will have to heed them.

Why post this meaningless dribble? I don't want the election to be about identity politics any more than the next guy, but how does SC demonstrate that it isn't? The black guy got 24% of the white vote and 80% of the black vote... and we're supposed to use that as proof that race isn't where it's at? Again, I'm not suggesting it is outside of SC, but this Digby fool seems to think he's proven something. 55% for a black man is encouraging, and something we can all be proud of... but I wonder if Digby realizes what percentage of these voters were black.

Echo that!

For sure, it's definitely a hopeful sign that the white under 30's who voted in the Democratic primary were massively prepared to vote for Obama. But this youngest generation still makes up only a small segment of the overall vote. And look at the totals. If Obama gets 80% of the black vote and 25% of the white vote in a state, it's ludicrous to suggest that this proves that race isnt all that important and the media should just back off it already.

I mean, that's still a huge chasm. And it will likely be replicated in other states as racially divided as SC, so it's a sincere concern, and a real and important element in the outcome.

Even Digby's talk of "a bi-racial majority" is just hyperbolic. I mean, Obama got 55% of the vote, so that's a majority -- but of his voters, 81% was black and 19% was white. Is that a bi-racial majority? Let's keep it real here.


Race and gender are, as a simple matter of logical necessity, undeniable elements in this contest. Denying the signicance of either is simply to be blind. Denying that they are both inherently divisive is equally blind.

Fair enough, in one sense, to call digby's 'bi racial majority' a positive or hopeful spin on SC. But when you add in the prior primaries and caucuses, then the statement isn't so easy to dismiss.

As regards the youth vote, Obama's appeal is noteable. But in a more general overview, it reflects a broad and substantial shift in young people's voting and policy preferences and party membership over to the left, as Krugman and others have detailed. What consequence this will have for this election, we'll see, but over the longer term, this is a very important shift and it makes Obama's present appeal to them supportive of the shift.

But I take digby's post to be referring most acutely to the media appetite for ANY aspect of contention, and their tendency to promote and exaggerate in order to create a narrative of constant conflict. It is their bread and butter for viewer capture. Gender and race and the bordering-on-evil Clintons are the flavors of the day.

I concur! Cool
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:14 am
blatham wrote:

Fair enough, in one sense, to call digby's 'bi racial majority' a positive or hopeful spin on SC. But when you add in the prior primaries and caucuses, then the statement isn't so easy to dismiss.


I agree and was looking for a way to make that point. It's as if we forget that he won Iowa and had VERY strong showings in New Hampshire and Nevada. Who voted for him there? It sure wasn't only black people. Does the landslide victory in SC wipe all that out?
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:15 am
snood wrote:
But more people voted for Obama than for all the GOP frontrunners, in their primary, combined.

They can be as conservative as they want, but they've still got to be able to get them out to vote.



Old political axiom. The Democrats win EVERY national election in which African-Americans show up to vote.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:16 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
snood wrote:
But more people voted for Obama than for all the GOP frontrunners, in their primary, combined.

They can be as conservative as they want, but they've still got to be able to get them out to vote.

They WIN, when their vote COUNTS!


Old political axiom. The Democrats win EVERY national election in which African-Americans show up to vote.
Crying or Very sad Cool
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:17 am
Quote:
blatham wrote:
Oh for goodness sakes.

Describing Obama's ability to inspire citizens as Messianism is like describing an election win as a revolutionary coup.

What are your alternatives, after all? Government administration by software program? Uninspired, uninterested and apathetic constituencies across the nation? Young people who don't give a phuck?

Nimh wrote: Yes, because of course the only alternative to someone who might give, for example, a German observer like Thomas a little too much of an uneasy feeling in terms of his messianic appeal, must be a completely robotic non-entity leaving entirely apathetic constituencies behind. There's nothing, like, in between. Please..


I wan't replying to Thomas but to someone else, as my post surely indicates.

Are you going to be climbing down off that self-appointed pedestel soon, nimh?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:19 am
Only 39% of the black voters for Obama were men.

Why?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:22 am
Quote:
Old political axiom. The Democrats win EVERY national election in which African-Americans show up to vote.


Not true anymore because of the huge Hispanic influence in American politics today.

Wait till all the illegals get out the vote... Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:26 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
I wouldn't argue with anyone who made that claim, it is strictly a matter of opinion. Based on the people I have been exposed to, South Carolinians are about as Neanderthalic as it gets.


Based on most of the people I have been exposed to, San Franciscans are mentally unstable, addicted to drugs and booze, and all queerer than a $3 bill.



(Georgeob1 is an obvious exception. :wink: )
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:26 am
Miller wrote:
Only 39% of the black voters for Obama were men.

Why?


Annnd! What difference, does it make, if true? He won! Nuff said!
What are you, a Clinton supporter? This sounds like another attempt to not concede, that in certain states, Obama WILL be the clear winner, irregardless of the percentage and who did what! I find this nitpicking and another excuse, to justify the racism and bigotry, the clintons, injected into a race, she couldn't win. Not in SC anyway. In the long run, as a registered Democrat, I plan to endorse the winning candidate. Be careful for what you wish for. Hillary will lose to the Republican, whoever it is. Cool
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:35 am
eoe wrote:
I didn't see Obama's crowd any more whipped up and hysterical than Hillary's crowd last week. Or any other candidates group.

Maybe so, but I have yet to see a supporter of any other candidate who called their favorite's appeal "messianic" (Roxxanne's word, not mine). On the other hand I have seen quite a lot of Obama supporters, online and in real life, who used that kind of vocabulary. And I don't think that's a coincidence: Obama's appeal as a political candidate is that he essentially promises salvation from partisanship, fights, and deals -- the very things politics is about, and properly so.

eoe wrote:
You guys are sad. Rolling Eyes

1) That's all right. Under president Obama, sad and happy people will be united, too.

2) You didn't get the memo, eoe. It's "cynic", not "sad".
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:35 am
teenyboone wrote:
I find this nitpicking ...


Nitpicking?

I've never seen a Nit much less picked a Nit...
Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:36 am
Miller wrote:
Only 39% of the black voters for Obama were men.

Why?

Well, the XY sex chromosome pair has a lot to do with it.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:38 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Roxxxanne wrote:
I wouldn't argue with anyone who made that claim, it is strictly a matter of opinion. Based on the people I have been exposed to, South Carolinians are about as Neanderthalic as it gets.


Based on most of the people I have been exposed to, San Franciscans are... all queerer than a $3 bill.





You would know as it takes one to know one. You really should seek help.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:46 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Whatever you may think of the Clintons, they have demonstrated a remarkably consistent ability to maneuver successfully through the various tactical political issues they have faced. Whether it was Bill's much touted "triangulation" of hotly debated public issues or his well-timed criticism of some Black hip hop singers & spokesmen (Sistah Solja in that case) during the 1992 campaign, they have shown the ability to manipulate issues so that they get the maximum political gain from the largest constituencies of voters - in almost every case.

It wouldn't surprise me to later learn that there has been some of this at work in their management of the contest in South Carolina. If they forsake a small fraction of the Black vote in the Democrat primaries and, by maneuvering Obama into a 'racist' corner of their own making, gain a small fraction of the much larger white vote - they will be ahead. If Hillary then gets the nomination, all will be forgotten.

I agree, george. The method is isolate, marginalize, then demonize and defeat.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:52 am
Thomas wrote:

1) That's all right. Under president Obama, sad and happy people will be united, too.


that's right! Very Happy

let the sunshine in, let the sunshine in, the sun-shine in.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:53 am
okie wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
Whatever you may think of the Clintons, they have demonstrated a remarkably consistent ability to maneuver successfully through the various tactical political issues they have faced. Whether it was Bill's much touted "triangulation" of hotly debated public issues or his well-timed criticism of some Black hip hop singers & spokesmen (Sistah Solja in that case) during the 1992 campaign, they have shown the ability to manipulate issues so that they get the maximum political gain from the largest constituencies of voters - in almost every case.

It wouldn't surprise me to later learn that there has been some of this at work in their management of the contest in South Carolina. If they forsake a small fraction of the Black vote in the Democrat primaries and, by maneuvering Obama into a 'racist' corner of their own making, gain a small fraction of the much larger white vote - they will be ahead. If Hillary then gets the nomination, all will be forgotten.

I agree, george. The method is isolate, marginalize, then demonize and defeat.


This is why Republicans hate the Clintons. They have taken the prime Republican tactics and mastered them.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sun 27 Jan, 2008 11:54 am
San Francisco Chronicle just endorsed Obama

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/27/ED6EUKN15.DTL

San Jose Mercury just endorsed Obama

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_8092306?nclick_check=1

CONGRESSMAN XAVIER BECERRA ENDORSES BARACK OBAMA
Says Obama will unite Americans to tackle challenges facing nation
LOS ANGELES, CA - Congressman Xavier Becerra today endorsed Barack
Obama for President, citing his ability to unite Americans to lead our
country in a new direction. Becerra serves on the powerful House Ways
and Means Committee and as the Assistant to the Speaker of the House
is the highest ranking Latino in the House.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/01/27/state/n000613S09.DTL&type=politics

Ted Kennedy just endorsed Obama

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/ted_kennedy_end.html
0 Replies
 
 

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