Obama '08?

nimh

Note the first sentence in that quote and its relationship to all that follows...

Quote:

You're an enlightened world citizen.

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nimh wrote:

SierraSong wrote:
You're an enlightened world citizen. Your T-shirt says "9/11 was an inside job." You're pretty sure we're living in a fascist state, that President Bush taps the Dixie Chicks' phones, Christian abortion clinic bombers outnumber jihadis

Yeah, that sounds like yer typical Democrat ... not.

Nice straw man. Keep it up if it makes ya feel good. By all means dont let reality get in the way of a grab at feeling superior.

Or, better yet, don't spam Soz's thread with hyper-partisan idiocy. Please. There's no shortage of more appropriate threads for that kind of crap.

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Spam? Spam, you say? I was just responding to Okie and ciscerone on the present-day Democratic party and if you'd bother to read Lilek's commentary, you'd see he's pretty much nailed the bastards. (Lilek is a Democrat, by the way).

Sorry to interrupt the little Obama-fest y'all got going here, but I'll stay long enough to go on record as saying he'll fizzle just about like Harold Ford, Jr. did. Remember him?

Obama can be as charasmatic and Clinton-like-charming till the cows come home, but unless he a)stands up convincingly for a strong military, b)comes out strong on national security, c)is genuine on both a & b, saying what he means and meaning what he says, he's just another Dem getting the Mario Cuomo ('84) treatment, annointed as their next great hope.

So far he seems to be playing it safe by being a middle-of-the-road fence-sitter, non-committal and never expressing an opinion that someone in his constituency might dislike.

But when you check him on the issues, you learn he's rabidly pro-affirmative action, he's anti the war in Iraq and has a thing about big business and corporations. Add to that the fact that he voted 'no' on one of the most stunningly brilliant judges I know (Roberts).

He won't be on the ticket in '08, but should he decide to run after that, he's not someone I would consider voting for.

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I rarely agree with SierraSong, but on this count I must agree with some of her views.

I think in politics it's still too early to forecast who will win or lose the presidency or congress. I don't think Hillary has a prayer outside of New York, and I don't see too many on either side offering a good, strong candidate for president.

As much as I disagree with John McCain's flips during the past two years, he may still be my primary candidate in 2008, but it will depend on who else runs with better credentials - in my personal, subjective view.

It just doesn't look too promising today on who might run.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I rarely agree with SierraSong, but on this count I must agree with some of her views.

What exactly in SierraSong's post are you agreeing with?

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SierraSong's post on the previous page:
I don't think we'll see a Democrat elected president for quite some time. Neither Obama, nor Biden, nor GoreTheBore.

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SierraSong wrote:

Sorry to interrupt the little Obama-fest y'all got going here, but I'll stay long enough to go on record as saying he'll fizzle just about like Harold Ford, Jr. did. Remember him?

On one thread, it might have been on this one, I spelled Obama, "Obomba." Strangely nobody picked up on it. I was ready to explain that he will bomb out. I have a hard time understanding the love fest over Obama, when the man has little experience and nobody even knows what hes for yet. And don't count me among those that think he is wildly charismatic or can give great speeches. I much preferred Michael Steele as being much more inspiring and substantive.

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What makes you mention Michael Steele, in a conversation about Barack Obama? Where's the connection?

Oh.......nevermind.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

SierraSong's post on the previous page:
I don't think we'll see a Democrat elected president for quite some time. Neither Obama, nor Biden, nor GoreTheBore.

Oh ok. Yeah, me neither. Unless the Reps are stupid enough to ditch both Giuliani and McCain, I dont see a Dem winning in '08. Not even Obama, I dont think, not against Giuliani and only against McCain if some wind starts blowing.

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snood wrote:

What makes you mention Michael Steele, in a conversation about Barack Obama? Where's the connection?

Oh.......nevermind.

People obviously are looking for a black politician that shows leadership potential. I think both parties realize there are lots of votes to be had, of course the Republicans have alot more upside potential. The Democrats already have the black vote, but of course tiny fractions of it might be slipping and they might wish to shore it up with a VP candidate? In the case of the Republican Party, as a conservative I strongly believe that there are many more conservative black voters than what elections have been showing, and if a strong candidate could emerge that could turn the tables in a major fashion, it could spell a major shift in voting patterns.

I mention Steele because the press was going ga ga over Obama, but ignored Steele's speech at the Republican convention. I loved his speech. His words were right and clear, he loves our country, he stands for values that I agree with and that most of us could agree with, and he was inspiring. Moreso than Obama in my opinion.

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To kind of randomly answer several recent posts, I am also cautiously pessimistic about the chances of any Democrat in 2008 -- I'm not saying "Obama WILL win," at all. I'm saying, "I, personally, am very impressed by Obama. CAN he win in 2008?"

This has absolutely nothing to do with looking for a black candidate. It has to do with the many positives Obama brings to the table. I'm not sure if, in terms of electability, being black is a positive or a negative -- I'd guess negative, but it's complex. (For example, I mentioned earlier that Obama is a feel-good alternative to Hillary because if we're not gonna go with the first-woman-president thing, the first-black-president thing is also inspiring.) (And I am wholly, completely, totally against Hillary being the candidate.)

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sozobe wrote:

To kind of randomly answer several recent posts, I am also cautiously pessimistic about the chances of any Democrat in 2008

Interesting -- I'm not. The Republicans are just as incongruous as the Democrats, and the only thing holding them together is winning. If their winning streak ends in this year's Congress elections -- and I'm fairly optimistic about that -- 2008 will be completely open. There seems to be a meme propagating through the press: "No matter how lousy the shape of the Republicans is, those Democrats just can't seem to make it". I can see where it's coming from -- witness those quibbles betwen Dean and Schumer over strategy. But for the most part I think it's pessimism feeding on itself through thoughtless repetition.

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nimh wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
SierraSong's post on the previous page:
I don't think we'll see a Democrat elected president for quite some time. Neither Obama, nor Biden, nor GoreTheBore.

Oh ok. Yeah, me neither. Unless the Reps are stupid enough to ditch both Giuliani and McCain, I dont see a Dem winning in '08. Not even Obama, I dont think, not against Giuliani and only against McCain if some wind starts blowing.

In that excerpt, I agree too. I can still hear Giuliani opening up at the RNC with "Welcome to the Capital of the World" with a matter-of-fact swagger that's sure to be almost intoxicating to the masses. McCain doesn't have that... but he does seem to have the respect of most moderate Democrats and Republicans alike. Should they team up; I think they'd dominate any and all comers.

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Thomas wrote:

Interesting -- I'm not. The Republicans are just as incongruous as the Democrats, and the only thing holding them together is winning. If their winning streak ends in this year's Congress elections -- and I'm fairly optimistic about that -- 2008 will be completely open. There seems to be a meme propagating through the press: "No matter how lousy the shape of the Republicans is, those Democrats just can't seem to make it". I can see where it's coming from -- witness those quibbles betwen Dean and Schumer over strategy. But for the most part I think it's pessimism feeding on itself through thoughtless repetition.

Hey, sure hope so. The good news is, the midterms are in just a few months (~4.5), so we'll know the answer to that one reasonably soon.

Interesting point about the meme, not sure if I agree or not (whether the problem is the meme or the problem is the Democrats).

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soz, The truth lies someplace in between those two, but true none-the-less. The democrats is a ship without any rudder. Most voters are confused on what they might be voting for; not good.

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I wanted to get back to this, but I didn't want to appear to be ruffled in any way.

Bill, Lash and Two Heavily Flawed Candidates: Take Two.

This was where we left off:

Lash wrote:
However, in some way, a protest vote could be considered a vote for inexperience. What I was thinking is you have to provide the two heavily flawed opponents for it to work that way.
Bill wrote:
Agreed... and when's the last time that wasn't the case?

Of course, this is impossible to quantify, because it relies on our opinions of who is flawed, and how heavily. I guess there may be polls showing measured ambivalence toward the two nominees by their own parties--that may be a way to support an assertion re "when both nominees were perceived by the electorate as heavily flawed..." eh...

What I was saying, personally, is that pre-Bush v Clinton, I'd never seriously entertained the idea of voting outside my party--when I was satisfied with my party's basic structure. You know the old adage "leave wid the one what brung ya". I was thinking of leaving Bush by the punchbowl. I was mad at him. (BTW, never say "Read my lips, no new taxes" to me.) Laughing

Obviously, a lot of GOPers were feeling the same way. Clinton was the most publicly flawed (see: bimbo eruptions and pot smoking Presidents list) of any candidate to that date. These two guys BOTH turned off their own parties in a way I hadn't seen to that point.

But, I guess it's really subjective. Very Happy

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Just my opinion; but I can't recall a Presidential campaign since Ronald Reagan's that relied more on "I'm the right guy" than on "He's the wrong guy". While the majority will dance wid who brung ya; my limited exposure to political opinions suggests a huge percentage of the voting public has been choosing the lesser of two evils for many years.
Example:

Raise your hand if you like Pork Barrel spending.
Raise your hand if you're against a balanced budget ammendment.
Raise your hand if you think special interest groups should have a greater voice than the general public.
Raise your hand if you think the Federal Government does a good job of managing our collective dough.
Etc, etc, etc. Ad Nauseum.

So, who do we blame; Republicans or Democrats? Oh yeah, both. While both take their turns paying lip-service to the above kinds of crap, which really does anything about it? Idea

Other than an independent thinker like McCain; which Old-Schooler would you believe might do something about any of that stuff?

On the other hand; a couple of outsiders-rookies-(pick your own descriptor) like Obama and the General, who haven't been tainted by many years of ignoring such issues could convincingly mount a campaign against such Bi-Partisan BS. Hence, I believe that virtually all R & D Candidates are basically heavily flawed...
And that's before even addressing the individual flaws that have been a plenty on every R & D Presidential Candidate during my lifetime.

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Well, maybe Obama should run with Ross Perot then. He's the mother of all political outsiders. I still remember his slogan in the presidential debate: "You're right, I have no experience in running up a multiple trillion debt!"

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Thomas wrote:

Well, maybe Obama should run with Ross Perot then. He's the mother of all political outsiders. I still remember his slogan in the presidential debate: "You're right, I have no experience in running up a multiple trillion debt!"

My vote and 40 hours a week campaigning in a heartbeat, were Ross up to the task. Easily the most exciting candidate in my lifetime. Not right (correct) on everything by a long shot, but I'll take an honest man over any politician, almost regardless of his politics.

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I happily voted for Bill Clinton both times. There was "it's the economy, stupid," sure, but he had a whole lot of inspiring, positive stuff to say, too. And did anyone really vote against Bob Dole? He's a mensch, just couldn't put a dent in the Clinton appeal.

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