Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 07:25 pm
au1929 wrote:
Cyclo
OK second year!


lol, oh in that case ok!

It all depends on how much I trust the others. Resume experience counts for about half, at most, of what I and most people look for in a candidate.

I like Obama, but I wouldn't vote for him in favor of Gore. And such and so on.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 07:34 pm
Cyclo
The candidate who has the experience and shown me the most is Biden. However, he seems to have been written off I would be hard pressed to vote for Obama should he capture the nomination.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 07:38 pm
au1929 wrote:
Cyclo
The candidate who has the experience and shown me the most is Biden. However, he seems to have been written off I would be hard pressed to vote for Obama should he capture the nomination.


Biden (aside from the corporate whoring) definitely does have the experience; but there's not much thought that he can be the sort of leader that people want.

Doesn't that sound funny? It is funny. But it's true.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 07:43 pm
Cyclo
You can sell the American public a used condom with the right sales pitch. Hell they bought asshole in the oval office twice.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 07:57 pm
au1929 wrote:
Cyclo
The candidate who has the experience and shown me the most is Biden.

Biden has experience allright, but does he have the experience you'd want..
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 08:03 pm
nimh

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108241&sid=5c17c5fea6444a84a3608793099d8d75
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 08:03 pm
au1929 wrote:
Cyclo
You can sell the American public a used condom with the right sales pitch. Hell they bought **** in the oval office twice.


See, that is a good (yet ironic) analogy. Appropriate, seeing as Biden's support and pushing of the Bankruptcy bill f*cked every American - 'cept for those who are heavily invested in credit card companies, of course.

I can't vote for someone who would work so hard, on the behalf of credit card companies, to no citizen's benefit.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 09:07 pm
blatham wrote:
Very funny thing here. Kant attack ad.
http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/08/kant-attack-ad/


In the same line of brilliant whimsy, check this one - I picked it up from TNR but it's being linked in everywhere apparently:

"here's a great antidote for anyone who thinks politics has gotten nastier over the centuries: a campaign ad based on pamphlet attacks against Thomas Jefferson during the 1800 election"

Anti-Thomas Jefferson Negative Political Spot (1800)

Description on YouTube: "A parody of a TV political attack ad, circa 1800, as the John Adams campaign smears Thomas Jefferson for being too French. From the PBS series "VOTE FOR ME: Politics in America"'
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 09:12 pm
Wonderful! Thanks nimh.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 10:15 pm
That's one of the ads that was featured in the Bill Moyer's Journal this past weekend during the segment on Fact Checking the presidential campaigns.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Mon 10 Dec, 2007 10:27 pm
There are a few articles in the news today that relate to some of the subjects we've been talking about recently. I'll just give the links and folks can read the articles for themselves:

This one about health care plans

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1663644,00.html

What Hillary Has Learned from '93


and this one about Obama/Oprah from someone who was at the SC stadium event

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-hansen/the-obamaoprah-effect-a_b_76018.html
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 11 Dec, 2007 06:39 am
Any chance of a summary, or a personal take?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 11 Dec, 2007 10:53 am
Money tidbit...
Quote:
$54.7 million, $34.9 million and $1.3 million: The net worths of John and Elizabeth Edwards, Hillary and Bill Clinton and Michelle and Barack Obama, respectively. The three couples together are worth less than half as much as Mitt and Ann Romney, whose net worth comes to $202 million, according to a CNN/Money report.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/2007/12/11/huckabee/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 11 Dec, 2007 01:20 pm
Quote:
Poll: Huckabee Still Loses In General Election Matches, Edwards Most Electable Dem
By Eric Kleefeld - December 11, 2007, 9:27AM
Some new CNN polling shows that while Mike Huckabee is surging around the country with Republican voters, he still lags far behind the top three Democrats in national polling, more so than the other Republicans. The numbers also show that John McCain is the most electable Republican, and that John Edwards is the strongest Democrat:


Clinton (D) 51%, Giuliani (R) 45%
Clinton (D) 54%, Romney (R) 43%
McCain (R) 50%, Clinton (D) 48%
Clinton (D) 54%, Huckabee (R) 44%
Obama (D) 52%, Giuliani (R) 45%
Obama (D) 54%, Romney (R) 41%
McCain (R) 48%, Obama (D) 48%
Obama (D) 55%, Huckabee (R) 40%
Edwards (D) 53%, Giuliani (R) 44%
Edwards (D) 59%, Romney (R) 37%
Edwards (D) 52%, McCain (R) 44%
Edwards (D) 60%, Huckabee (R) 35%
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 11 Dec, 2007 02:26 pm
Very interesting --- The McCain leads are insignificant (within MoE) where they exist.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Wed 12 Dec, 2007 08:21 am
Just a few thoughts here on experience....

The little man who is currently in the WH was supposed to have lots of help from "experienced" Cheney and Rumsfeld. Bush never changes his mind or his policies no matter what happens that disproves his policies nor does he ever say he is wrong.

Abraham Lincoln had two terms in the congress before becoming president or was it two terms in the Illinois legislature. Not much experience there, but he used his intellect and reason to not only make critical decisions, but to get a consensus with a contentious group that he had selected: Chase, Seward, et al.

Experience is great, but sometimes a great thinker trumps the experience...someone who dares to make decisions that are unpopular. We may be on the cusp of disaster in this country if we don't find a leader who can truly lead.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 12 Dec, 2007 09:03 am
On the point of the gender issue (I'm sorry, but my mother's ghost is being channeled through my keyboard and I am compelled)

Quote:
Gentlemen First
The Vice President Gets the Vapors

By Ruth Marcus
Wednesday, December 12, 2007; Page A29

Dick Cheney is worried that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has shrunken the "big sticks" of the once-tough guys who were the vice president's colleagues in Congress.

Barbara Walters wants to know whether former president Clinton will organize the Easter egg hunt or fuss over Christmas decorations if there is a future President Clinton.

Tee hee hee.

There is a common subtext here, or, rather, common subtexts. The first is the continuing, maddening, mystifying discomfort with the notion of a woman as leader. The second involves the supposed implications -- humiliating? emasculating? -- of female leaders for the men around them.

In case you missed it, the vice president made those comments in an interview with the Politico. "Most striking were his virtually taunting remarks of two men he described as friends from his own days in the House: Democratic Reps. John Dingell (Mich.) and John P. Murtha (Pa.)," wrote my former Post colleagues Mike Allen, Jim VandeHei and John F. Harris.

Cheney, they wrote, "scoffed at the idea of two men who spent years accruing power showing so much deference to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) in the big spending and energy debates of the year." The House's senior Democrats "march to the tune of Nancy Pelosi to an extent I had not seen, frankly, with any previous speaker," Cheney said. "I'm trying to think how to say all of this in a gentlemanly fashion, but [in] the Congress I served in, that wouldn't have happened."

Asked if these men had lost their spines, he responded, "They are not carrying the big sticks I would have expected."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/11/AR2007121101836.html?nav=hcmodule
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 12 Dec, 2007 10:22 am
Some of you may have been following the hullaballoo that's been going on over the last three weeks as a consequence of a Joe Klein column in Time. Boehlert can fill you in here

In fact, left or progressive criticism of Klein's commentary has been broad and consistent for a few years with Eric Alterman as a prime critic and, more recently, with Glenn Greenwald being the most persistent and most through.

The reason I mention all this here relates to my argument that we've long been awash in a particular narrative about Hillary and Bill clinton which has arisen in the media generally. An important part of that narrative wash includes Klein's book and subsequent movie Primary Colors.

So, if you're interested, take a look at Boehlert's column and follow up with Greenwald's writing. If you're not interested, please just carry on.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 12 Dec, 2007 10:38 am
One final thing.
Quote:
Politico called Clinton's Sunday-show laugh "calculated" and a "cackle," but Giuliani's laugh "good-natured[]"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200712110006?f=h_top

Politico, though fairly new, has been a big disappointment. Much of their coverage is shallow, often transcribed directly from non-objective sources without fact checks or even analysis, and it too often merely functions to regurgitate conventional narratives.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 12 Dec, 2007 11:04 am
blatham wrote:
One final thing.
Quote:
Politico called Clinton's Sunday-show laugh "calculated" and a "cackle," but Giuliani's laugh "good-natured[]"
http://mediamatters.org/items/200712110006?f=h_top

Politico, though fairly new, has been a big disappointment. Much of their coverage is shallow, often transcribed directly from non-objective sources without fact checks or even analysis, and it too often merely functions to regurgitate conventional narratives.


It's also a site which was specifically designed to give legitimacy to Drudge. You may note the huge amount of links leading from one to the other.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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