Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:38 am
Sorry for the cross-posting, but Hillary Clinton's universal health care plan is out. I haven't read it yet, and I'm curious how it stacks up against Obama's and Edwards'.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 12:03 pm
Clinton's homepage has a summary of the plan here

For the full plan (PDF, 10 pages) click here.

On first reading, I like her plan. It has an individual mandate, covers the uninsured, forces no changes on those who like the health care they get from their employers. The plan seems similar to the John Edwards's; I haven't yet figured out the differences between them.

It's nice to see that all three Democratic front runners now have detailed, functional, and comprehensive plans for health care reform.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 12:21 pm
Innerestin'.

Thanks for the links, Thomas.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 12:41 pm
Thomas wrote:
Clinton's homepage has a summary of the plan here

For the full plan (PDF, 10 pages) click here.

On first reading, I like her plan. It has an individual mandate, covers the uninsured, forces no changes on those who like the health care they get from their employers. The plan seems similar to the John Edwards's; I haven't yet figured out the differences between them.

It's nice to see that all three Democratic front runners now have detailed, functional, and comprehensive plans for health care reform.



It's 'bout time!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 03:10 pm
Thomas wrote:
Sorry for the cross-posting, but Hillary Clinton's universal health care plan is out. I haven't read it yet, and I'm curious how it stacks up against Obama's and Edwards'.

I havent read it either, and probably wont.. But judging from the reactions she's gone and passed Obama on the left. Now that was unexpected!

It's quite like Edwards' plan as you say, apparently. This is Jonathan Cohn's first tentative reaction - he's the health care expert at TNR:

Quote:
CLINTONCARE, THE SEQUEL:

In a few hours, Hillary Clinton will be rolling out her health care plan before an audience in Iowa. When she does, I'll have more to say on it. But here's what I can tell you now, based on interviews with her advisers and some outside experts over the last few days.

As Laura Meckler first reported in the Wall Street Journal on Saturday, Clinton's plan is very ambitious -- as far-reaching, in the broad sense, as the one John Edwards first proposed back in January. Indeed, the basic framework of the Clinton plan is strikingly simliar to that in the Edwards plan.

There's universal coverage through an individual mandate, with a requirement that large employers (but not small) provide coverage or contribute money towards subsidizing coverage for the uninsured. There's also a new pool through which people can get coverage they don't already have insurance. And, yes, one of the options in that pool will be a public program.

(Barack Obama's plan shares these similarities, too -- except for one key difference: There's no individual mandate.)

Clinton also has some new wrinkles, too. Among them, she wants to stop using taxpayer dollars to subsidize generous insurance benefits for the wealthiest Americans.

More on these, and other provisions, soon...

--Jonathan Cohn


Comments in the thread include:

Quote:
posted by purcellneil

Good move, Hillary and one more piece of evidence in the case against the too-cautious Barack Obama.

posted by virginiacentrist

Hillary's experience Let's elect the one candidate who has proven herself utterly tone deaf and incompetent in selling universal healthcare to the public. The candidate who set back universal healthcare by decades through her bungling of the issue! [..]

posted by g.mcentire

Sit back. Wait for all your opponents to unveil their plans. Study the crap out of them. Cherry pick the best parts as your own.

Vintage Hillary. She played this perfectly.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 03:16 pm
And this is Ezra Klein, the Prospect's (e.a.) health care expert, who generally criticizes the Clintons (quite fiercely, even) from the left. He loves the plan!

He also notes, though, that the next question - and the next battlefield in the election debate - is about strategy: how do the candidates plan to implement their plan, once elected?

This is Ezra's take on the plan, from his blog:

Quote:
The Hillary Plan

Let me try and give a quick sketch of the Clinton proposal before I have to run for a meeting. Here's the thumbnail: Clinton's plan is of the "individual mandate" variety, in which universal coverage is achieved by mandating that every American purchase health care. In order to ensure that that's both possible and affordable, the Clinton plan creates a few new coverage options, reform the insurance industry, limits coverage costs to a percentage of income, and washes your car.

Okay, it doesn't wash your car. It does open the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program to everybody, ensuring that anyone can access the same menu of regulated private options that federal employees get. FEHBP is the program that already insures millions of current government employees, including the members of Congress, by offering a variety of regulated private options to choose from. Throwing the doors to that program wide open is the most basic and ubiquitous of coverage solutions.

More importantly, the plan also creates a new public insurance option, modeled off, but distinct from, Medicare. That's a big deal: The public insurer offers full coverage and is open to all Americans without restriction. Public insurance is what I feared her plan would avoid, and instead, she embraced it wholeheartedly. The concern with a plan like this (as with the Edwards plan), is that insurers will market coverage to the young and healthy and subtly tilt the public plan's risk pool towards the old and sick (the check is that governmental plans are, for reasons related to administration costs and care incentives, cheaper). At the end of the day, there's not much that can be done about that, unless you want to tax insurers with overly healthy pools, as they do in Germany. Come to think of it, that's exactly what they should do -- it was even in the 1994 bill.

And if you don't go through the newly expanded FEHBP or the public option, preferring to keep your current insurance, you'll still be dealing with a heavily-regulated and reformed insurance industry, which can no longer price discriminate based on preexisting conditions or demographic characteristics, refuse you coverage, or deny renewal of your policy -- including if you change your job. So if you like your current insurance but quit your cubicled existence at MegaCorp, your insurer can't drop you. All this matters because it keeps the private programs from having too much capacity to undercut the risk pools of the other options. It also destroys the elements of the insurance industry's business model that rely too explicitly on screwing you over.

There are a variety of affordability measures, the most important of which, by far, is a refundable tax credit limiting the cost of insurance to a certain percentage of family income. The plan doesn't yet define what that percentage of income is, but it'll presumably be reasonable. In this, the plan differs from Edwards' plan, which uses sliding scales of subsidy up to a certain level of income. On the other side, the employer tax deduction will now be limited to standard plans for middle-income folk, while gold-plated health care for wealthy individuals at will be subject to taxation.

So the policy is very, very sound, and includes other sundry goodies like a Best Practices Institute that will vastly accelerate the amount of research done and distributed on the cost-effectiveness of treatments, better chronic care incentives, and so forth. The rhetoric is interesting too, being entirely about "choice." It's called the "American Health Choices Plan." The first section, on the opening of FEHBP and the creation of a new public insurer, is titled, "Providing a Choice of Insurance Plans." The first bullet point assures readers that every American will be able to keep their current coverage if they so desire. Etc, etc. This is very distinctly aimed at the criticisms of the 1994 plan, which is that it would reduce choice and constrain medical freedom. This plan won't, and its ability to expand options is laced through the document, and through the statements her advisors have made.

The plan is more ambitious than her 1994 effort in some ways, less in others. The 1994 plan fully integrated the health care system into a whole new structure. It was probably a better structure -- particularly in its global budgets and growth caps, which would forcibly arrested the absurd growth in health costs -- but it would've caused far more disruption for most families, and was thus easier to attack. This plan leaves intact most every current program, including Medicaid and SCHIP (which come in for expansion), and offers a public option, which the 1994 plan didn't.

The only question is how serious of a proposal it is, i.e, whether it's what she plans to fight for from her first day in office, or whether it's to keep Edwards and Obama from opening up an advantage on her left flank. For now, there's no way to know. But given how smart she's been about neutralizing the other candidates' potential advantages -- including, with this plan, cutting their legs out on health care -- we're likely to find out.
All done!


And this was a preliminary sidenote of his about the strategy question and about Edwards' response, on the Prospect's Tapped:

Quote:
THE HEALTH CARE WARS.

Today, Hillary Clinton will release her long-awaited plan for universal health care. Given her history and prominence, that's a big deal. And I'm hearing that it's a very good plan, similar, in fact, to Edwards' plan.

Which may help explain why the Edwards campaign, concerned that they could lose their advantage on the issue, has decided to do the Clinton camp one better and has scheduled a speech outlining their strategy -- as distinct from their policy plan -- for passing health care reform. In the speech, Edwards will directly attack Clinton's performance in 1994, her willingness to take donations from insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists, and announce that on his first day in office, he'll submit a bill terminating the health coverage of the president, the Congress, and all political appointees if Congress fails to pass health reform by July 20th, 2009. In other words, he'll begin raising the stakes on the candidates' political commitments to passing health reform, rather than their policy documents. Should be interesting...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 17 Sep, 2007 04:07 pm
sozobe wrote:
I don't think they're afraid to take on Hillary per se (in the sense of taking on "Clinton, Inc.") I think its more that Obama especially is campaigning on this whole new politics, hope, positivity thing and decrying dirty politics. So he's not going to go ahead and sling the mud himself.

I do wish he'd go ahead and stay away from the mud but ask the hard legitimate questions, as we've talked about before, though.

You hit upon a(nother) note of annoyance for me, here. No dirty politics, fine, who can disagree? But what about just expliciting your substantive disagreements? Naming names on the ones you have?

To be fair, I dont think this is specifically an Obama thing, though he is probably a little more needlessly cautious than most. It's a more general thing.

I went off a bit on that the other day.. On TNR, some blog post praised Obama for cleverly taking on Hillary when he was visiting Clinton, Iowa:

Quote:
Here's the key Hillary-smacking portion of the speech:

    George Bush was wrong. The people who attacked us on 9/11 were in Afghanistan, not Iraq.... The case for war was built on exaggerated fears and empty evidence--so much so that Bob Graham, the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, decided to vote against the war after he read the National Intelligence Estimate.
And we all know who famously didn't read the Iraq NIE. More:

    Conventional thinking in Washington lined up for war. The pundits judged the political winds to be blowing in the direction of the president. [b]Despite -- or perhaps because of how much experience they had in Washington, too many politicians feared looking weak and failed to ask hard questions. [/b] Our only opportunity to stop the war was lost. I made a difference judgment... I opposed this war from the beginning. [[i]emphasis added[/i]]
That line about "experience" is also clearly targeted directly at Hillary.

My reaction was, WTF?

Quote:
What's the coyness..

.. about mentioning Hillary by name?

The beef Obama has with her is an honestly substantive one, so there would hardly be any "attack ad"-type smearing involved if he just explicited, "this is where Hillary and I differ."

I mean, what is up with this nudge nudge, wink wink, "I'm not going to name names but we all know who I mean" stuff? What's wrong with dominant discourse if you can't even openly name the concrete, substantive policy differences you have with each other?

This is not a question of Obama being tied to his promises of pursuing a cleaner kind of politics. It's not as if anyone in the know doesnt already know who he means anyway, so it's false modesty. And personally addressing substantive political differences is not dirty politics, it's what candidates owe the voters, so as to allow them to make an informed choice.

All I know is, if he is to make the drastic break in current poll trends that he needs to make, he needs to at least dare to make the real policy beefs he has with Hillary explicit. Joe Average Voter will not get the nudge nudge wink wink stuff targeted at the politicos, they will need Obama to just say: I stand for A, Hillary stands for B, and such and so is why I believe I am better.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 12:40 am
Jonathan Cohn, as quoted by nimh, wrote:
But here's what I can tell you now, based on interviews with her advisers and some outside experts over the last few days.

Journalists will always puzzle me with this kind of line. How about just reading the plan itself, Mr. Access-to-Insiders? It's right there on her website, only 10 pages long, and contains more information, less diluted by staffer spin. Why not just go for the original?

But thanks, nimh, for collecting the reactions. Interesting.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 04:58 am
Thomas wrote:
Jonathan Cohn, as quoted by nimh, wrote:
But here's what I can tell you now, based on interviews with her advisers and some outside experts over the last few days.

Journalists will always puzzle me with this kind of line. How about just reading the plan itself, Mr. Access-to-Insiders? It's right there on her website, only 10 pages long, and contains more information, less diluted by staffer spin. Why not just go for the original?

Because he posted this blog item before the plan came out.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 05:21 am
nimh wrote:
Because he posted this blog item before the plan came out.

This could be true, but I'm not sure it is. The blog documents only the date, but not the time, when Ezra Klein posted the item. The first comment, which is short and has presumably been posted shortly after the initial post, has a time stamp later than my own first post here. This is true even if the blog is on Eastern Time whereas A2K is on Central Time. Finally, Hillary Clinton's plan was already on her website when I submitted my first post, though I don't know for how long.

I think Ezra Klein more likely than not posted his blog item after Clinton posted the plan on her website. While it's not entirely impossible that you are right and he posted it it before, the probability is not high enough to un-puzzle me about journalists' preference of "insider" hearsay over written primary sources. (But maybe this is a topic for another thread. It's a dangerous topic to get me started on. Razz )
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 06:23 am
Thomas wrote:
nimh wrote:
Because he posted this blog item before the plan came out.

This could be true, but I'm not sure it is. The blog documents only the date, but not the time, when Ezra Klein posted the item. [..] I think Ezra Klein more likely than not posted his blog item after Clinton posted the plan on her website. While it's not entirely impossible that you are right and he posted it it before, the probability is not high enough to un-puzzle me about journalists' preference of "insider" hearsay over written primary sources.

Thomas, you were quoting Jonathan Cohn, not Ezra Klein.

Cohn's blog post, meanwhile, was posted at 11:18 a.m. on the day Hillary's plan came out. Even should the plan already have been online at that time, it would have arguably still been too early for a magazine's go-to-person on a topic to be able to write an analysis of the document he wouldnt regret later on.

I dont like anonymous insider sources either, but I think you're just barking up the wrong tree here. Each magazine etc will have a go-to-person about the specific topic. That person will be harangued with questions and calls about what it all means the very moment a major candidate's plan appears or the candidate starts talking. And in today's media, coming out with your first comment only a day later will be, well, late. Yet you dont want to write something rash either. So you prepare an advance preview kind of item based on what you can find out by asking around beforehand, and post that the moment the plan is launched -- and make your proper analysis of it a follow-up the day (or whatever) later.

Klein did the same thing, posting a preview comment on Tapped first, and then following up with his at-length analysis later in the day.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 06:47 am
Yesterday the influential SEIU (Service Employees International Union - 1.9 million members) held its presidential forum in D.C.

"Speculation hangs in the air here; the union says it will be making a primary endorsement in October, and of course, Edwards is a favorite among many labor activists," commented Dana Goldstein on TAPPED, but, she added, the question was, "after feeling burnt by their early Dean endorsement last time around, will the SEIU take a risk for '08?"

Obama took the stage, as did Richardson, Hillary, Edwards and Chris Dodd. And apparently, it was quite the event. Enthusing reading!

First, Obama gave a brilliant, rousing speech:

Quote:
02:10 PM: OBAMA AT SEIU. Homecare worker Pauline Beck is introducing Barack Obama, who "walked in her shoes" in California on Aug. 8. The Senator made breakfast and did the laundry for her charge, 86-year old John Thornton, Beck said. Now we're watching a video of Obama's day with Beck. He met her at home before dawn and ate with her kids before heading to work.

Beck is a great reminder that female workers in the caring professions are increasingly the face of the 21st century labor movement.

Here comes Obama to the strains of Aretha Franklin's "Freedom." The crowd jumps to its feet. He's hugging everybody on stage. He leads a chant: "SEIU! SEIU!" And now he's beginning his speech. He gives a shout out to "my homies" in SEIU.

02:29 PM: PROMISES FROM OBAMA: "If the Democratic party means anything, it means standing with labor." He's sounding like a preacher today and can't speak for more than one minute without being interrupted by cheers. Quotable lines abound.

"I have news for [the Bush administration]: It's not the Department of Management, it's the Department of Labor."

"I'm tired of playing defense. The SEIU is tired of playing defense, Andy Stern is tired of playing defense. We're ready to play offense for the living wage, we're ready to play offense for secure retirements. We're ready to play offense for some universal health care."

Obama swears, to a standing ovation, to sign universal health care into law by the end of his first term. Yep, it looks like the health debate is increasingly one of political strategy. Obama says, "There are a lot of good health care plans out there. ... Sen. Clinton put out a plan today, and I'm sure there are a lot of good ideas in there, too. But the real key...is bringing people together in a way that builds consensus." Little dig at Hillary's 1994 record.

Now onto immigration: "I have never seen an issue that has been used so crassly for partisan purposes." He talks about the millions of custodians and health care workers who are working everyday but "living in hiding."

"When I am president I will put comprehensive immigration reform back on the agenda and I will not rest until it is passed once and for all." Standing ovation.

02:30 PM: A BIGGER DIG AT THE CLINTONS FROM OBAMA. "It's time we had a Democratic nominee after the primary who doesn't choke saying the word 'union.' It's time we had a Democratic president who says the word 'union' once in a while. Come on, it won't kill you."

02:47 PM: TOP-FORM OBAMA. Barack Obama is a natural in front of this crowd. He's shouting, they're standing, the room is roaring. He says he's walked on picket lines since his days as a community organizer after college, and that as president, if he hears workers rights are being compromised, "I'll have to find a comfortable pair of shoes."

He shouts, "I'm not new to this!" He imitates a candidate embracing labor for the first time: "Oh, you organize? The SEIU wears purple shirts?" Laughter. The implication is pretty clear: John Edwards, despite his work of recent years, doesn't have as long of a history with the SEIU. Now Obama's receiving another standing ovation as he criticizes Congressional Democrats for taking too much money from big business.

This speaking style is exciting. Obama sounds more like a civil rights leader today and a lot less like an overly cautious presidential candidate. He's doing call and response, and his one-liners are cutting. But this isn't a rhetoric Obama will take on the road outside of the SEIU convention -- or at least he hasn't yet. Maybe that's a good thing; maybe a civil rights preacher persona doesn't translate in Iowa. But if you don't see this Obama, the Obama today completely at home rabble-rousing among labor activists, you can't comprehend the fervor some of his progressive supporters feel.

"Just imagine what we can do together. Imagine having a president whose life work was your life work. Imagine having a president whose life story was like so many of your own."
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 06:52 am
Quote:
But if you don't see this Obama, the Obama today completely at home rabble-rousing among labor activists, you can't comprehend the fervor some of his progressive supporters feel.


Damn straight!!!

I saw it in Chicago, and I saw it in his first book. I don't know if he should do it all the time. But he has it.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 07:22 am
sozobe wrote:
Damn straight!!!

I saw it in Chicago, and I saw it in his first book. I don't know if he should do it all the time. But he has it.

I see a contradiction, though, between Obama's exhortion that

"It's time we had a Democratic nominee after the primary who doesn't choke saying the word 'union.' It's time we had a Democratic president who says the word 'union' once in a while. Come on, it won't kill you."

and the fact that the appearance of this Obama persona is apparently reserved to events like these; to his books and rallies with the liberal faithful. What caught my eye is that Goldstein wrote, "If you don't see this Obama, you can't comprehend the fervor some of his progressive supporters feel" (emphasis mine). Well, quite. Shouldnt Obama then follow his own advice and show all of us that Obama, the one who assertively proclaims his support for unions and the like, rather than keep it in the closet just for safe occasions?

I think it poses a contrast with Edwards, who has been walking picket lines and focusing his very campaign around the issues of poverty and worker/employee rights for several years now.

Despite her enthused inspiration by Obama, Goldstein focuses on that as well in subsequent posts about Edwards' speech - an even bigger success than Obama's - and members' responses afterwards. I want to post those too, but don't want to flood the thread..
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 07:31 am
Well, the book is available to anyone, and it's all there.


I've had the impression for a long time that Obama wants to become KNOWN, to etch an image in the mind of Americans, before he breaks out the big guns. The intimidation factor. He is still becoming known to vast swaths of America -- WE know who he is, but a lot of people don't, really. He wants his first impression to be mild, affable, conciliatory, proactive, positive. Not Angry Black Man. Nor Obama = Osama. I think he's being very careful about that.

I think that with some audiences, he's not as worried. They already know who he is, or they're not as easily intimidated, or he's speaking their language. That people other than him talk like that in those situations, that the audience is used to it.

What I'm interested in seeing is how this evolves. I really think that once he has gotten past some point he's going to start becoming more impassioned on a regular basis. I think there are two aspects there -- one, what I already said about rolling out his personality in a deliberate way. The second is that this is a long-ass race, and I think he's pacing himself. That may be dangerous, may cost him the nomination, I don't know. But I think he is going to kick things up a notch or two when we get closer to the primaries. Maybe he already has.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 08:10 am
sozobe wrote:
Well, the book is available to anyone, and it's all there.

Yes, but in the main only those who are generally sympathetic to his passions are likely to read the book; and he knows that too.

A book is a good way to reach those who are already most willing to lend you an ear anyway. To reach the other 98% of the population, you need to speak out through the media. If there is any dissonance between the persona you project in your book and the one which you project to the wider audience, that's a minus to me.

The jab that he addressed to Hillary about daring to stand up publicly for the unions comes back to himself, was my point, if he only shows "this Obama", as Goldstein put it, to the progressive faithful himself as well.

Regarding the book count in general - this has been irking me - do you really expect voters to read a book each on all the candidates? Most of them have penned a book at some point or other. If not, why do you posit "just read the book" as a reasonable argument when it comes to questions about Obama?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 08:14 am
I don't, really. I was responding to:

nimh wrote:
Shouldnt Obama then follow his own advice and show all of us that Obama, the one who assertively proclaims his support for unions and the like, rather than keep it in the closet just for safe occasions?


I say it's there, in the book. That's not quite "keeping it in the closet."

However, the rest of my post is recognizing that the people who will go find the book are a small percentage of the electorate -- and that he may be purposely managing how those people get to know him.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 08:16 am
sozobe wrote:
I say it's there, in the book. That's not quite "keeping it in the closet."

Well, that's a definition question then. Considering only the most enthused will read his book anyway, it's as much "keeping it in the closet" as reserving it for union speeches and the like is.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 08:22 am
Well, no. "Keeping it in the closet" certainly implies purposeful hiding. If someone wrote a best-selling book -- and do keep that in mind, it's a best-seller, not some obscure little volume -- that features the fact that the author is gay, would you say that person is in the closet?

Meanwhile, you don't address the whole other part of my post. Angry Black Man is a real liability in America. I think it makes sense that he'd be careful about that.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 18 Sep, 2007 08:26 am
sozobe wrote:
Meanwhile, you don't address the whole other part of my post. Angry Black Man is a real liability in America. I think it makes sense that he'd be careful about that.

Definitely makes sense to me.
0 Replies
 
 

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